Moved from Christian Advice - I can't help my family...

seeingeyes · Mar 1, 2013

Lee M said:
I am just afraid <snip>

Can't fight fear with fear. That's what you've been trying by staying away, but it hasn't worked. You have to bulldoze fear with love. Run straight at your fear and show your mama how it's done.

Lee M · Mar 1, 2013

Awesome, thanks.

seeingeyes · Mar 1, 2013

Lee M said:
Awesome, thanks.

I hope you two are able to wrangle this thing out. Keep us updated.

StarBright · Mar 1, 2013

Not sure what advice we can give you. Your family believes with all their hearts that you're lost and on your way to hell. You disagree. That's really the black & white of it. It's a hard, painful situation. But is there some quick, clever remedy? No, there isn't.

They've made their decisions to believe what they do. Their concern for you is out of love. They aren't trying to make you feel terrible. It's obvious that you care for them just as much and hate to see them upset and worried about you. But you've also made your decision not to believe.

*shrug* What else is to be said? Sometimes we're faced with horrible circumstances we can't do a thing about. Your family will probably hope and pray that you change your heart someday towards Christ, and that's what I'd pray for you, too.

Lee M · Mar 1, 2013

Well I don't like quick and clever remedies and I abhor that sort of thinking too which is why I haven't left the subject yet. I am not sure love is what is causing this, it is definitely involved but I don't believe love is the root of it. But me not being a Christian is part of the reason I doubt that.

My mother does get rude sometimes, as does my sister and love isn't where that comes from, even if the person is dull witted enough to not perceive it. That is fine and I won't punish them for it. In general she's just sad and scared for me and I can appreciate that.

Lee M · Mar 1, 2013

I don't have this sort of devotion to anyone here on this forum so I'll be quick.

Everyone feel free to go read my ideas in the Exploring Christianity forum and the ethics and morality forum.

I really do have a volatile anger toward Christianity and it's ideas. This is absolutely true and in posts where I find it appropriate I've displayed this but I assure you that as I have displayed many times over I will always show you the same kindness you show to me and unless you're a jerk I will do nothing but respect your sentiments.

But yes I am sad to tell you that if you have the desire to help me be a Christian you will only find disappointment. It took a lot to undo the Christian I use to be I have not experienced anything since then powerful enough to change what happened. Just leave it alone.

Lee M · Mar 1, 2013

In the last of a few posts I made on the exploring Christianity forum I told bluhdofthelamb that I knew some of the problems with my own ideas that I was no longer interested in the research I originally set out to do there and I have made no more threads on that forum.

TheyCallMeDave · Mar 1, 2013

Lee M said:
I am not a Christian and I am not the least bit interested in being a Christian but I think maybe I could still learn something from you all by presenting you with this real life problem I've run into because it involves my Christian family and I want to help them but I don't know how.

My Mother is deeply worried about me, she doesn't know if she can hold on for me much longer, her hope for me to be saved is flickering. She believes that I am on my way to a devastating hell. She sent my previous pastor a plea for help that I happened to see and in it she expressed that she was losing hope for me to be saved and she was asking him to keep praying for me. This broke my heart and I really really hate what this religion is doing this to her, I hate that it's hurting her, it makes me so angry that this thing is inflicting so much pain on my mother and I can't help her see what I see. can't take her pain away. I want to take away her fears but I can't, I can't change what she honestly believes and her beliefs cause her great pain.

My sister sent me a message full of anger and regret, chastising me for being this messed up and this selfish and this ignorant, all the while claiming her love for me, she's scared i'm on my way to a hell.

I want to help my family, I want to help my mother and ease her pain but I can never be a Christian again because I see what it is and they do not see it yet and I don't really believe I can ever help them see it.

I just want to help my family It hurts me so much to see them so afraid and full of pain. I just want to help my family... but I don't know how. I am not interested in taking away or destroying their beliefs, I wouldn't ever try to do that to them, I just don't want to see them hurting this way.

I have considered lying to them and acting like a Christian just to take away their pain, I mean none of this matters to me anyway, I think I could stomach the dishonesty if it gives my mother peace in her later years though I don't know if I could actually pull it off. I really just want to help them be at peace... this pain in them makes me so angry at what's doing it and hurts me very much.

Becoming a Christian would satisfy all of the above things that you listed. Most of all, it would give you the irrevocable inheritance of heaven one day. Theres countless people in eternity right now that wish they had one more chance at becoming a Christ Follower and having all their many sins erased . This is very very serious business and you need to rethink the huge mistake youve made so far. I can understand the extreme anquish your Mom is under concerning you . Stop fighting God and just surrender. Only your pride and exuses are standing in the way as it was once for me.

amandatea · Mar 1, 2013

Lee M said:
I don't have this sort of devotion to anyone here on this forum so I'll be quick.

Everyone feel free to go read my ideas in the Exploring Christianity forum and the ethics and morality forum.

I really do have a volatile anger toward Christianity and it's ideas. This is absolutely true and in posts where I find it appropriate I've displayed this but I assure you that as I have displayed many times over I will always show you the same kindness you show to me and unless you're a jerk I will do nothing but respect your sentiments.

But yes I am sad to tell you that if you have the desire to help me be a Christian you will only find disappointment. It took a lot to undo the Christian I use to be I have not experienced anything since then powerful enough to change what happened. Just leave it alone.

I'd just like to say this. I used to feel the same as you toward Christians and Christianity. This is because the people I grew up seeing as the examples of Christ were nothing like Christ. They were hypocritical, selfish, greedy, and many other not so nice adjectives. Even my own father - who presented himself as an incredibly zealous "Christian" - tainted Christianity in my view. I felt that if *THAT* was what being a Christian meant, I wanted no part of it. It was disgusting to me how people using Christ's name behaved and treated others. If this is why you disagree/disdain the ideals, I can understand to a point. But even through all of that, after rejecting the notion for years, I still had this underlying wish to know God (I wasn't even sure He was real in the way I was taught as a child) and I could not disbelieve the Bible, in my heart.
When I was shown the true characteristics of God, through lots of learning about history, bible prophecy, many testimonies and through seeing the circumstances of my own life, I was rendered incapable of denying God any longer. And believe me, I was agnostic and bordering on atheist for several years. It took a lot for me to get to where I am now. Even through that, the most important aspect of learning about the true God was my having an open mind and open heart and making a decision that I want to know the truth, no matter what that meant for my life.

I respect that you have made a decision and I'm not trying to force my beliefs on you: I just wanted you to think about the fact that maybe the face of Christianity you have seen is not the truth.

Lee M · Mar 1, 2013

Thank you for being kind enough to share some of yourself with me. This is the sort of thing I appreciate. Yes I do think about this. it is an ever spinning world I must maneuver. I do my very best. Please do not mistake my finality for only anger or naive prejudice.

motherprayer · Mar 1, 2013

Lee, there is only one piece I can give you - or rather them, but you can tell them

Tell them they need to spend the time they use worrying, fretting, and trying to convince in prayer to the One they (we) believe is ultimately responsible for your Salvation. As I know well myself, trying to push someone to believe will only push them further away.

I'm truly sorry that you are angry, I just want you to know that. And I want you to know that there is one person at least on this forum who is Christian who won't try to push you. I'm here for you as a FRIEND. A person you can talk to if you want, who won't turn every conversation into a question about conversion lol

Lee M · Mar 1, 2013

motherprayer said:
Lee, there is only one piece I can give you - or rather them, but you can tell them

Tell them they need to spend the time they use worrying, fretting, and trying to convince in prayer to the One they (we) believe is ultimately responsible for your Salvation. As I know well myself, trying to push someone to believe will only push them further away.

I'm truly sorry that you are angry, I just want you to know that. And I want you to know that there is one person at least on this forum who is Christian who won't try to push you. I'm here for you as a FRIEND. A person you can talk to if you want, who won't turn every conversation into a question about conversion lol

You have indeed shown yourself a friend and I do appreciate you and thanks for your advice.

Pal Handy · Mar 1, 2013

Lee M said:
I don't have this sort of devotion to anyone here on this forum so I'll be quick.

Everyone feel free to go read my ideas in the Exploring Christianity forum and the ethics and morality forum.

I really do have a volatile anger toward Christianity and it's ideas. This is absolutely true and in posts where I find it appropriate I've displayed this but I assure you that as I have displayed many times over I will always show you the same kindness you show to me and unless you're a jerk I will do nothing but respect your sentiments.

But yes I am sad to tell you that if you have the desire to help me be a Christian you will only find disappointment. It took a lot to undo the Christian I use to be I have not experienced anything since then powerful enough to change what happened. Just leave it alone.

What did Jesus say that offends you?
Below are some of His words, what offense do you have?

“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find;
knock and the door will be opened to you.”

“What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul.”

“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

“For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

“Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”

“for God so loved the World that he gave his only begotten Son"

“Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for "of such is the kingdom of heaven."”

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."

Lee M · Mar 1, 2013

Pal

It doesn't matter what I think. What matters is my mother, if you have something to say about her then I will listen to that.

I get the feeling that you want to prove me wrong, this I will not tolerate or pursue with you or talk about with you.

If you are honestly concerned about why I feel the way I do, then I am sorry but I simply will not provide that information here because it would serve no purpose.

Lee M · Mar 1, 2013

If you do want to know, go read the threads I started in Exploring Christianity and Ethics and Morality but I probably will not continue conversation there either because I have little interest contending for my ideas with Christians now.

Pal Handy · Mar 1, 2013

Lee M said:
Pal

It doesn't matter what I think. What matters is my mother, if you have something to say about her then I will listen to that.

I get the feeling that you want to prove me wrong, this I will not tolerate or pursue with you or talk about with you.

If you are honestly concerned about why I feel the way I do, then I am sorry but I simply will not provide that information here because it would serve no purpose.

All I will give you is Christian based advice as anything short would
not really resolve your problems.

You are here as a guest so please understand that this forum is for those seeking Christian advice.

You came here looking for advice so you must understand that you do not have
the right to tell us not to give you Christian based advice as that is the sole purpose of this forum.

I could not give you any meaningful advice divorced from the source of that advice which is
Jesus Christ and His teachings and commands.

Lee M · Mar 1, 2013

Please understand that if you disregard my kind requests that you talk about what I ask you to talk about then you will simply, immediately and permanently be blocked and I will never see another message from you ever again. It's that easy for me to solve this problem and I am too willing to do it because I am done with these games because that is all that they are.

I don't mind Christian advice, but I request that you stay on topic, respect my kind requests and talk about I did ask about, trying to prove me wrong on secondary and non pertinent issues, not related issues... is different, it's debate and it is not within the rules of this forum.

Pal Handy · Mar 1, 2013

Lee M said:
Please understand that if you disregard my kind requests that you talk about what I ask you to talk about then you will simply, immediately and permanently be blocked and I will never see another message from you ever again. It's that easy for me to solve this problem and I am too willing to do it because I am done with these games because that is all that they are.

I don't mind Christian advice, but I request that you stay on topic, respect my kind requests and talk about I did ask about, trying to prove me wrong on secondary and non pertinent issues, not related issues... is different, it's debate and it is not within this rules of this forum.

Ok...
You can help your mother by accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior.

If you did this you would find strength in Christ to change your life and impove the life
of your mother and family relations.

Jesus Christ is a real person and not a concept or religion so He can trully help your
mother if you will trust in Him and ask Him to help her.

I have seen many miracles in my life so I know what Christ can do to help
your mother as nothing is impossible for Him because He is God.

God can and will help your mother if you will humble yourself and admit your need
for His help to help her.

Prayer is power when we trust in Jesus Christ to do what we are powerless to do.

Jesus loves your mother so much and wants to bless her through you.

Pray and ask Jesus Christ to help.

Lee M · Mar 1, 2013

Alright, thanks for your advice Pal.

Pal Handy · Mar 1, 2013

Lee M said:
Alright, thanks for your advice Pal.

I will be praying for you Lee as I really do care about you
and want the best for you ....

Give your Mom a hug and tell her you love her....

May God bless you and lead you in truth....

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