MoonLancer
The Moon is a reflection of the MorningStar
When a child is born do they lack the belief in god? Yes or No?
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When a child is born do they lack the belief in god? Yes or No?No, they're not.
When a child is born, he is born saved by grace through innocence.
When he reaches the age of accountability, and has the chance to be saved by grace through faith, and rejects it, he is lost.
Later, should he say in his heart, "There is no God", he becomes an atheist.
You might think that very cleaver but Atheism is not a belief, but instead a lack of belief. All people who are is incapable of having a belief in God are an atheist.Are they born atheist, or are they born incapable of having a belief either way?
Technically, yes, but is there a point in talking about (a)theism when the being in question is not capable of understanding the concept of gods? Is a slime mould an atheist? Well, technically, yes, but does that fact have any significance?You might think that very cleaver but Atheism is not a belief, but instead a lack of belief. All people who are is incapable of having a belief in God are an atheist.
See my last point/question. You simply can't know.Although in general your thinking is flawed. A child is born an atheist and stays that way until they are taught otherwise.
The point I was trying to make is that talking about atheism in babies is pretty meaningless.Sometimes they stay atheist for their entire life. Sometimes they become a theist and then go back to being an atheist when they know better. It still does not change that Humans are born atheist.
It shows that children are not born theistic and must acquire and learn this trait. It also shows that it is only a written book and oral tradition (and people) influence people to be christian. Its not a magical thing people suddenly become. It also goes to show that atheism is the default position where theism is the position making any given claim. Athism doesn't need to be defended or shown to be true in anyway. This will always fall on the job of the theist. If they cannot demonstrate their position... oh well.Technically, yes, but is there a point in talking about (a)theism when the being in question is not capable of understanding the concept of gods? Is a slime mould an atheist? Well, technically, yes, but does that fact have any significance?
i don't understand. explain.See my last point/question. You simply can't know.
i disagreeThe point I was trying to make is that talking about atheism in babies is pretty meaningless.
Is that sentiment also felt by the hundreds of other religions out there? or is it just peculiar to your religion?When a child is born, he is born saved by grace through innocence.
A baby is a blank canvas it takes the language and if the parents have a religion it's more than likely they will also take that.
Atheisim in babies? If you think babies are born with a religion which religion do you think that is? that was a silly question because it's got to yours hasn't it? or whoever is reading this.The point I was trying to make is that talking about atheism in babies is pretty meaningless.
Oh, I totally agree that people have to be taught about specific religions.It shows that children are not born theistic and must acquire and learn this trait. It also shows that it is only a written book and oral tradition (and people) influence people to be christian.
The thing about this... yes, logically, theism is the positive claim, so logically, they should be coming up with the evidence. But practically, the vast majority of humanity is religious, so atheism is hardly a "default" position in that respect. It may be illogical, but it's the way people are.Its not a magical thing people suddenly become. It also goes to show that atheism is the default position where theism is the position making any given claim. Athism doesn't need to be defended or shown to be true in anyway.
You said that children become religious because of others teaching them.i don't understand. explain.
Then I guess we'll have to leave it at that.i disagree
When a child is born they are born Atheist. This persists until someone convinces them otherwise. Normally parents who force it on them or friends and peers who pressure them.
Go back to this post, please. Then you'll understand why your question completely missed the point.Atheisim in babies? If you think babies are born with a religion which religion do you think that is? that was a silly question because it's got to yours hasn't it? or whoever is reading this.
Atheism has got to be the default position because the vast majority of humanity does not raise your child, you do,But practically, the vast majority of humanity is religious, so atheism is hardly a "default" position in that respect. It may be illogical, but it's the way people are.
Personally, I feel that for the human being the default state IS awareness of a higher conscioiusness of some sort.If there were no religions there would be no Atheists because not believing in a god is the default state.
People bring forward their religions and when ANYONE disagrees with that religion they are branded as Atheists.
EVERYONE in this world is an Atheist to some degree.
If you don't like the word Atheist what would you call someone who doesn't believe in your religion?
If you disagree with these statements please tell us why.
Non sequitur, and I think you missed my point.Atheism has got to be the default position because the vast majority of humanity does not raise your child, you do,
So let me translate. Without a religious upbringing, a child may or may not become religious. And that demonstrates what? There are still a bazillion different influences that can push someone one way or another. You can't remove them. You can't tell what would happen without them.you give your child your religion if you have one, no one else, if you don't have a religion the child will grow up without religion because you wont expose it to religion, in later years depending on how secure the child feels it might feel the need to go out and look for religion otherwise it will stay without a religion.
Children have been kept with dogs in India and they grow up thinking they are dogs, there was no awareness of a higher conscioiusness of some sort there I'm afraid, they raise dogs in Italy who think they are sheep, they even look like sheep. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maremma_SheepdogPersonally, I feel that for the human being the default state IS awareness of a higher conscioiusness of some sort.
Good for you.Thought I'm a lover of God, there are no "beliefs" in my spiritual path. As such I have no word that describes someone who does not believe what I know and experience.
Unfortunately, you don't know how a child's beliefs would develop without outside influence, because you can't rear children without outside influence.
For all we know, becoming religious may be the normal course of development for children reared in isolation. If that were the case, you couldn't claim that others cause religiousness (only that they cause adherence to particular religions).
Personally, I feel that for the human being the default state IS awareness of a higher conscioiusness of some sort.
You decide:Is that sentiment also felt by the hundreds of other religions out there? or is it just peculiar to your religion?
SOURCEThe concept of the age of accountability comes from Romans 7 in the Bible. In Romans 7, the apostle Paul states that there was a time when he "was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died." This is the idea that a period of time exists as a small child before one has the mental ability to grasp and truly understand the laws of God. During the time of innocence one is spiritually alive because God does not hold them accountable. A child who has passed the age of accountability is said to know the difference between right and wrong and to be capable of obeying the moral laws of God. Some Christian traditions believe that the age of accountability is the end of a period of early grace (prevenient grace, in Wesleyan traditions) which covers over the sins of those not capable of knowing the moral consequences of their actions (persons who, due to developmental disability, mental or emotional development, will never reach a sufficient level of abstract reason, are covered by this grace for life and are sometimes known as 'the innocents').
In Christian traditions that practice Believer's Baptism (baptism by voluntary decision, as opposed to baptism in early infancy), the ritual can be carried out after the age of accountability has arrived. Some traditions withhold the rite of Holy Communion from those not yet at the age of accountability, on the grounds that children do not understand what the sacrament means. Full membership in the Church, if not bestowed at birth, often must wait until the age of accountability and frequently is granted only after a period of preparation known as catechesis.
The time of innocence before one has the ability to understand truly the laws of God and that God sees one as innocent is also seen as applying to individuals who suffer from a mental disability which prevents them from ever reaching an time when they are capable of understanding the laws of God. These individuals are thus seen as existing in a perpetual state of innocence by the grace of God.
A child will not become religious unless it is pointed at religion because a child would not know what religion was or what it was for.So let me translate. Without a religious upbringing, a child may or may not become religious.
Why would anyone seek out religion unless they felt a need for companionship, comfort or forgiveness? all of which can be got from friends, have no friends? then they need to go find a religion.(And I would bet you also don't have any data about that insecurity thing.)
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