SilverBear
Well-Known Member
Still looking for evidence that the hospital is actualy doing this.
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Still looking for evidence that the hospital is actualy doing this.The APA acknowledges that the affirmative care model can lead to sterilization of children (aka the inability to have children).
What more evidence do you need?
This isn't castration or mutilationThe hospital site describes they follow the the gender dysphoria and gender incongruence guidelines. Those guidelines allow for chemically castrating kids with gender drugs and also support surgeries for kids.
Gender Dysphoria/Gender Incongruence Guideline Resources
The 2017 Endocrine Treatment of Gender-Dysphoric/Gender-Incongruent Persons is an update to the 2009 version, which establishes and standardizes the terminology and safe treatment of gender dysphoric/gender-incongruent persons and reaffirming the role of endocrinologists.www.endocrine.org
Here is what the guidelines say.
2.1. We suggest that adolescents who meet diagnostic criteria for GD/gender incongruence, fulfill criteria for treatment, and are requesting treatment should initially undergo treatment to suppress pubertal development. (2 |⊕⊕OO)
2.2. We suggest that clinicians begin pubertal hormone suppression after girls and boys first exhibit physical changes of puberty.
So we know what they are doing chemically.
and nothing that says they are.They also recommend waiting until 18 as an age fro surgeries. But it is a RECOMMENDATION only and admit that they believe there is no requirement to follow it and there is nothing to say they shouldn't do surgeries on minors.
Evidence?There was a special to be aired on NBC I think regarding gender clinics and their increasing popularity, etc. They also intended to air a segment on detransitioners....which was a substantial part of the special (20-30 minutes if I remember correctly).
After repeated threats and attacks....the segment was cut down to 5 minutes with many detransitioners edited out entirely.
Detransition happens for many reasons only a tiny fraction is because of regret.In all fairness, while it's true that a very small percentage actually "detransition", that's not synonymous with "regretting the decision".
If someone has already spent countless dollars and transitioned, to the point where they may not even be able to go back (for instance if they've already had bottom surgery), they're pretty much stuck with the path of least resistance in terms of "fitting in to society" which means sticking with it even if they regret their decision.
Or, to put in more bluntly...if you've already had your penis chopped off and had breast implants and been taking feminizing hormones for 5-10 years, you're kind of at the point of no return so a true "detransition" isn't even an option even if you regret the initial decision....at that point, if you have any hope of wanting to "fit in", you're easiest option is to continue identifying as a woman.
The APA acknowledges that the affirmative care model can lead to sterilization of children (aka the inability to have children).
What more evidence do you need?
Given that the suicide attempt rate is still pretty high (even after transitioning)but....but what if the other 96% are just...happy?
Why can't we just allow that to be true?
But one can experience regret without detransitioning. As I mentioned before, if a person has already spent thousands of dollars, and experienced physical changes that are past the point of being reversable, they could experience regret, but not detransition.Detransition happens for many reasons only a tiny fraction is because of regret.
S. Davies et al 2022 Detransition rates in a national UK Gender Identity Clinic Surveyed 3398 individuals who transitioned over the last two decades. They found 0.47% experienced transition-related regret. Of these, only two went on to actually detransition and become detransitioners.
J. Turban et al 2021 Factors Leading to "Detransition" Among Transgender and Gender Diverse People in the United States found that of those who do engage in some form of detransition the majority 83% only did so temporarily due to societal, financial, or family pressures.
But it's not. Many of these people indicate they are HAPPY with their transition but that their other mental health issues don't simply disappear afterwards.Given that the suicide attempt rate is still pretty high (even after transitioning)
I think it's a stretch to say that 96% are perfectly fine and happy.
For the same reason that this data point is not necessarily the one you'd want to through your money and research behind:Why? You should only get the airtime based on your percentage of the population?
They got 5 minutes.If the thing you're advocating for cannot allow alternative viewpoints to express themselves, alternative explanations to be considered, and attempts to silence people with those viewpoints and explanations.....do you think it's still a good idea to advocate for that thing?
Yes it is chemically castrating kids. It's sad that saying so upsets you more that the actual act of doing it to kids.This isn't castration or mutilation
and nothing that says they are.
I watched the whole thing, they kept it pretty civil I would say.Hey, remember that small exchange we had regarding "debate" and how few on the left are willing to debate anymore?
Did you see Ana (Kasperian?) Of TYT talk with Ben Shapiro recently?
I only saw a clip of her explaining why she was willing to sit down with him and my jaw dropped. I really hope she and Ben didn't go at each other too hard.
That's a fair counterpoint...But it's not. Many of these people indicate they are HAPPY with their transition but that their other mental health issues don't simply disappear afterwards.
That doesn't mean they aren't happy with their transition though.
I don't think anyone has to go to a hospital to get on puberty blockers and HRT.Still looking for evidence that the hospital is actualy doing this.
For the same reason that this data point is not necessarily the one you'd want to through your money and research behind:
View attachment 328076
Sure you address it. I'm not saying ignore it. I'm also not saying silence it.
I just saying it's not worth the time and passion that the trends indicate.
They got 5 minutes.
I posted an article about a trans gentlemen whose a prof in social work who has been researching detransitioning. The article was in the NYTimes.
What does it take for folks to "not feel silenced"?
If we are going to take this form of addressing each other, why are we obliged to hear every single individuals idea, no matter how outlandish it is?Gotcha....keep the marginalised from speaking. Keep them marginalized.
I'm not. I'm saying give it the attention the evidence purports it is due.You are saying silence it.
C. Dheine 2011 Long-term follow-up of transsexual persons undergoing sex reassignment surgery: cohort study in Sweden. This 11 year study found no statistical difference in the suicide rate between those who have transitioned and the general population.Given that the suicide attempt rate is still pretty high (even after transitioning)
I think it's a stretch to say that 96% are perfectly fine and happy.
While the transition does reduce suicidal ideation by over 30% (which shouldn't be ignored), the baseline suicidal ideation rate is so high that I think it's unrealistic to say "everyone who doesn't detransition must be perfectly happy and content with their decision".
Citations pleaseI also think some numbers get conflated here with regards to the conversations about children. With regards to children, the major concern isn't with detransition as much as it is with desistence rates.
While the desistence percentage is likely not as high as the earlier studies had it pegged at (90%) due to some methodology flaws. More current, refined studies (that corrected for many of those methodology flaws) still have that number being over 60%. Which is a high enough number to warrant some caution. Whereas, desistence rates for adults seems to be much much lower.
Citation?It would also seem that waiting may even be more prudent now given new surveys and research that's coming out.
UCSF gender clinician Erica Anderson, who is transgender herself, had some interesting findings as well. Of the 25,000 participants in a LGBT+ survey, one third of the participants who wanted to identify as the opposite sex/gender when younger, ended up landing on identifying as non-binary when they got a little older... which adds some considerations to the desistence conversation.
NOoit isn't and i am sorry that this simple fact upsets you so.Yes it is chemically castrating kids. It's sad that saying so upsets you more that the actual act of doing it to kids.
and still no evidence ...I don't think anyone has to go to a hospital to get on puberty blockers and HRT.
Yeah it is. That's what the drugs were for before we started giving the. To kids.NOoit isn't and i am sorry that this simple fact upsets you so.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?