Mortal Sin: Does It Really Occur That Often?

[BAChristian]

I was thinking today, before I went to confession, about mortal sin and how we must confess of our mortal sins and encouraged to confess our venial.

God knows I have a lot of venial sins...

And after reading the other thread here about a priest committing mortal, I was thinking to myself, how could a person, who calls him or herself a Christian actually commit mortal sin that often?

Do you think that mortal sin really happens that much in the life of a devoted Catholic?

I mean, I'm not trying to come off like I'm Mr. Holy or something, but...to be quite honest, from what I understand, it takes a lot to commit a mortal sin. And I think that's where many Protestants will scoff when they hear that, "you sin every day", because to them, a sin is a mortal sin. And they would rarely commit a mortal sin...

But they wouldn't call it mortal per se, rather, they'd just call it a sin.

Does that make sense? Am I totally out of it tonight? Metal? Contemporary? Punk?

Huh?

Thoughts, as always, are appreciated.

 

[MariaRegina]

Dearest BAchristian:

God bless you. Wish you were my neighbor! We'd have fun with the JW's. You gotta love them to convert them. And with your kind heart, you would be able to bring them to Christ. I can just see you with that love of God in your heart shining all over your face while you read John 1 to them: "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ...

Have a grace-filled day tomorrow as you are purified, illuminated and sanctified. Keep up the good work! You have the right concept of sanctity.

Lovingly yours in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

Well, I think that some people have addictions that they struggle with that are mortal sins. A big one being pornography and other sexual sins.

 

[Magisterium]

It seems that a clear distinction between sin and culpability needs to be made. The fact is, many mortal sins are mortal sins by virtue of the act themselves. What is variable is the culpability. Therefore, though someone may inadvertantly commit a mortal sin against say chastity but not realize that it's a mortal sin, the act is still wrong, but the person's culpability may be reduced or diminished. Further, I used the example of chastity because it's perhaps the one which is hardest to maintain in the sex-soaked culture of the western world whether one calls themself Christian or not..

As for protestant misunderstandings, the idea that a sin could be mortal (spiritual life ending) is a concept that many protestants reject outright (once saved always saved). Therefore such believers, see no need to make such a distinction anyway.

 

[Spotty]

BA,

Yeah man, this is really something that I struggle with: the knowledge of what constitutes and what does not constitute a mortal sin, or more accurately, the degree to which we lessen our grace through those actions. You know, if we do X, does that prohibit us from the Eucharist?

I've more than once gone to Confession and confessed I may have taken the Eucharist in mortal sin - I just don't know sometimes, and that's what's so frustrating. And to be perhaps more than honest with my brothers and sisters in Christ, my struggles in particular of the sexual nature...what with being a 21 yr. old male in this sex-soaked culture, as A_B_liever put it. My girlfriend and I (dating for 5 1/2 years) have never had sex, granted, but there are times when we're 3 feet away from an inside the park homerun, if you follow.

I guess I'm sort of confessing here "out loud" so to speak. If you wouldn't mind keeping me in your prayers...it's just frustrating to think that is a mortal sin when you compare it to murder, rape, on top of which we love each other and would be married if money and time allowed it. I mean we've set a date and we're not even engaged yet! How wierd is that!

....oy.....

So anywho - that's a good question BA. Circumstance, addiction and your own nature all play into an account of the culpability, but it's so difficult to understand for me.

-Spotty

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

Spotty,

Hello, you're in the same boat as me. My girlfriend and I also have been dating for 5 1/2 years. Although it has been 3 1/2 years since we have done anything (3 feet from a homerun as you say), and 3 years since I have no sin of a sexual nature at all, it definitely is a struggle. To combat the temptations, we go to daily Mass, go to confession every other Saturday, she dresses modestly, and we do not have alone time at a person's house. Another thing that worked for me, but definitely hard, is that I am accountable to her dad for sexual sins, I am not kidding you. He regularly asks me how I am doing, and thankfully for the past three years I have had nothing to share. It is a big incentive to do nothing when you are held accountable by your future father-in-law. He has actually been a blessing to me, I think that all fathers should have a open discourse with their sons about things of the sexual nature. We discuss sexuality all the time from a Catholic male perspective. We are both steeped in the teachings of our Pope and we are adamant about ending the sexual curse that has plagued both him and myself.

I plan to teach my sons about the sanctity of sex and hold them accountable, so that they can stay chaste for their spouse, whether it be a woman or the Church, and develop their sexuality, so that they may use it to build up the Body of Christ, rather than tear it down.

It really is a struggle when you love the person so much, that it seems only natural that you want to be one with them, and share the most intimate things with them, however it is agape love to say, wait a minute I care more about your soul and my soul and being obedient to God through his Church, than succumbing to the temptations.

However, I can't wait for the wedding night! My girlfriend and I are also excited about using NFP and planning our family according to God's will. I can't wait, it is so hard to be patient.

 

[MariaRegina]

Great posts you guys! My son read them too. He's 19 and has had a girlfriend since 13.

Remember these three: prayers, fasting, and prostrations.

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

What do you mean by prostrations?

 

[Spotty]

proud2bcatholic,

Wow - that's truly remarkable that you've been able to respond to God's call in that manner. I consider myself a pretty good Christian in both logical reasoning and most manners of living, but to achieve what you mentioned about the rejection of sexual sin; that is truly inspirational. Difficult, yet inspirational. And your circumstances regarding her father are very beneficial I'm sure. My girlfriend's Dad is a Col. in the USAF, and 6'7. God Bless Him! Intimidation was never manifested like this before, but I know that he loves me and looks forward to having me as his son-in-law.

Thanks for your post - it'll be with me for a while now.

-Spotty

 

[MariaRegina]

What do you mean by prostrations?

When Pope John Paul II used to visit countries when he was in better physical condition, as soon as he disembarked from the jet, he would kneel down, place his hands on the ground in front of him and then bend forward and kiss the ground. This is called a prostration.

Eastern Catholics don't kiss the ground. They make the prostration by placing their foreheads either on the floor or on their outstretched hands which are placed on the floor. One Melkite priest called prostrations, "spiritual push-ups".

Whenever you feel tempted, whether it is an addiction to chocolate, alcohol or sexual passion, or eating a juicy steak on Friday, try making 40 prostrations in a row while praying "Lord Jesus, have mercy" or "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner."

Benefits: It's both a physical and and a spiritual exercise. After you finish making a series of prostrations, whatever was tempting you will have vanished, because you will be breathing deeply and thinking clearly: "No way will I offend my God. In the name of Jesus Christ, begone Satan."

Another Catholic priest recommended visualizing a purple cow. ...
"I can tell you one thing, I'd rather see than be one."

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

Spotty,

Thank for your words. It was done only by the grace of God. He put people into my life that helped me, and also gave me the teachings of Pope John Paul II that truly inspired me. If you are struggling with anything, just pm me, and I'll see what I can do to help. I'll pray for you, and you pray for me. Deal?

Chanter,

The only time that I have heard the term prostrate, was laying completely parallel to the ground in front of the Eucharist at adoration, which I do quite often during adoration. This is the first time that I have heard the term in that manner, and the first time that I have heard of that recommendation, I will try it out. Also, thank you for your kind words.

 

[Rosa Mystica]

I was thinking today, before I went to confession, about mortal sin and how we must confess of our mortal sins and encouraged to confess our venial.

God knows I have a lot of venial sins...

And after reading the other thread here about a priest committing mortal, I was thinking to myself, how could a person, who calls him or herself a Christian actually commit mortal sin that often?

Do you think that mortal sin really happens that much in the life of a devoted Catholic?

I mean, I'm not trying to come off like I'm Mr. Holy or something, but...to be quite honest, from what I understand, it takes a lot to commit a mortal sin. And I think that's where many Protestants will scoff when they hear that, "you sin every day", because to them, a sin is a mortal sin. And they would rarely commit a mortal sin...

But they wouldn't call it mortal per se, rather, they'd just call it a sin.

Does that make sense? Am I totally out of it tonight? Metal? Contemporary? Punk?

Huh?

Thoughts, as always, are appreciated.

BAChristian,

You ask a very good question. Technically speaking, a sin is mortal if:

1) It involves serious matter
2) There is sufficient reflection (i.e. knowledge that the sin is serious prior to committing it)
3) There is full consent of the will

If one or more of these conditions is not present, it is NOT a mortal sin.

Now, your question was whether mortal sin was really all that prevalent in this world today? I would say yes, it's very possible. As A_B_liever said, there are a great many people who commit acts which are objectively wrong.
And, if you ask my opinion, the people who commit them are not always all that ignorant. For instance, I've heard people who commit sexual sins say things along the lines of, "Yeah, I know I shouldn't be doing this, but..." See, in this instance, all three prescribed conditions exist (at least in my mind), even if that individual has never heard the term "mortal sin" in his/her life.

I realize that mortal and venial sins are often hard to distinguish subjectively (i.e. when it comes to sins you've committed). My policy: if you committed a sin in the past which you only recently learned is serious, confess it anyway (as it is, objectively speaking, "grave matter"). Also, if you know something is a sin, but are unaware of it's seriousness, confess it anyway. Doing both of these things will give you the most peace of mind.

Rosa

 

[Cathologetics]

Wow. Good question! To me, it has to be a willful thing, so I would say it is not something we do all that often. Gonna have to let this one digest some though. Good thread topic!

 

[BAChristian]

BAChristian,

You ask a very good question. Technically speaking, a sin is mortal if:

1) It involves serious matter
2) There is sufficient reflection (i.e. knowledge that the sin is serious prior to committing it)
3) There is full consent of the will

If one or more of these conditions is not present, it is NOT a mortal sin.

Now, your question was whether mortal sin was really all that prevalent in this world today? I would say yes, it's very possible. As A_B_liever said, there are a great many people who commit acts which are objectively wrong.
And, if you ask my opinion, the people who commit them are not always all that ignorant. For instance, I've heard people who commit sexual sins say things along the lines of, "Yeah, I know I shouldn't be doing this, but..." See, in this instance, all three prescribed conditions exist (at least in my mind), even if that individual has never heard the term "mortal sin" in his/her life.

I realize that mortal and venial sins are often hard to distinguish subjectively (i.e. when it comes to sins you've committed). My policy: if you committed a sin in the past which you only recently learned is serious, confess it anyway (as it is, objectively speaking, "grave matter"). Also, if you know something is a sin, but are unaware of it's seriousness, confess it anyway. Doing both of these things will give you the most peace of mind.

Rosa

hi Rosa...thanks for the comments.

While I fully understand the difference between mortal and venial, and what the Church teaches, I was more curious to hear more in line with what you thought in your second paragraph...

Thanks for the thoughts.

I guess what I'm getting at -- is that if someone is going to confession all the time to confess mortal sin, then there's a serious problem. I would think that a devoted Christian would rarely have to confess mortal sin, because to me, I have a hard time thinking that I would commit something that is "grave". Finally, maybe that's why some Catholics don't go to confession as much -- because they haven't committed mortal sin...

That's kind of what I'm getting at, and what I'm kinda thinking of right now...

Maybe a clearer definition of "grave" is needed...dunno.

Anyway, just thoughts...

 

[InnerPhyre]

Very good thread! I have a hard time distinguishing myself. There have been times when I have commited serious sins that I was absolutely sure were mortal, and confessed those, but sometimes I get confused and fall into a sort of grey area, where I'm not sure if what I've done is venial or mortal. I tend to confess anyway, just to be sure.

 

[InnerPhyre]

I've been thinking about mortal sin alot lately and I realized that almost no priests that I know ever talk about it, or the need for confession before taking Communion. Why is it that so few preists seem to have a desire to tell their congregations the truth, and let everyone know what the catechism says? It seems that so many priests these days just want to give touchy-feely-happy sermons. Happy sermons don't save people from hell. I was at my mom's place and was telling her that missing Mass on sunday for no good reason is a mortal sin. She didn't believe me, so I pulled out the catechism and showed her where it said that. She was really surprised. She rarely misses mass, so she wasn't worried about herself, but what about the millions of luke-warm catholics who go a few times a month, never go to confession and take the Eucharist every time they go? Something needs to change to help these people. Priests need to start harping on these issues. Don't you all agree?

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

I agree that Priests need to more often communicate with the parishioners that to receive Jesus in the Eucharist, you must be in a state of grace, which requires the Sacrament of Confession if you have committed a mortal sin. I know of only one priest that does this, and that is my confessor Fr. Billy Kosco. My parish is very fortunate to have Fr. Billy, man I love this guy!

 

[Benedicta00]

hi Rosa...thanks for the comments.

While I fully understand the difference between mortal and venial, and what the Church teaches, I was more curious to hear more in line with what you thought in your second paragraph...

Thanks for the thoughts.

I guess what I'm getting at -- is that if someone is going to confession all the time to confess mortal sin, then there's a serious problem. I would think that a devoted Christian would rarely have to confess mortal sin, because to me, I have a hard time thinking that I would commit something that is "grave". Finally, maybe that's why some Catholics don't go to confession as much -- because they haven't committed mortal sin...

That's kind of what I'm getting at, and what I'm kinda thinking of right now...

Maybe a clearer definition of "grave" is needed...dunno.

Anyway, just thoughts...

BA,

Here are my thoughts.

I don’t know what type of mortal sin you are referring to but you are right, cycle a problem and it can be because of a number of things. And this can apply to venal sin as well, never growing overcoming habitual venal sin even if you confess and receive communion often. These are all because we never let go of the underlining cause and that is the 7 deadly sins.

These sins darken the intellect, the 7 deadly sins, pride anger, ect so sin causes our intellect to be darkened, that is why it is easy for a person to fall into mortal sin.

Sin also let’s in the enemy so when we sin mortally we run the risk of being oppressed by the sin when we hang on to our underlining cause and that is how sin can become cycle.

I also heard that when we commit a mortal sin we lose virtue. With the lost of virtue mortal sin can be easily commit frequently. Prayer, fasting, sacrifice, penance and reparation, good works is essential to developing virtue, we must practice it and if we don’t we can fall into sin much easier. This is what I think our Protestant brethren are denying themselves with faith alone and OSAS. The power given by God to be freed from the sin by practicing good works.

Those who are sincerely sorry but they never develop virtue to rid themselves of vice (7 deadly’s) is forgiven but they will spend time in purgatory for failing to purify themselves of what causes their sin.. One never learning to control their anger, pride lust ect is what leads a good person into mortal sin even if he frequently confesses.

Another problems is denial, sin darkening the intellect, that when a person is in a cycle of serious sin and confesses their sin even if it is sincere, they usually do not go to the same priest or confess face to face so a priest can not figure out what is going on and say to the person that you need to seek professional help for something they may be addicted to like alcohol, drugs or pornography, anger management. That sort of thing.

So there are many reason why a person can be in a trap of sin and repent. He is in bondage to his own passions and the enemy can use that consent to bind him further. Only by the grace of God and cooperating with that grace can a person be freed.

Jesus talks about this when he says that a person who sweeps their house clean, the demons come back and the last state of the person is worse than the first (I can not recall where the verse is). That is because they can confess and rid themselves of the sin but if they do not replace their vice with virtue, they will end up in worse sin than before.

 

[Filia Mariae]

BA,

You ask an interesting question.

It reminds me of something my priest once told us, that if we are perpetually confessing the exact same sin, there is a problem because there is something about that sin that we find more attractive than God Himself, if we are willing to continually reject God for that sin.

That said, we all have our own temptations and weaknesses that we are prone to. For instance, I can't forsee myself ever having to confess using illegal drugs because I have no desire to do so. On the other hand, as Spotty and Proud2bCatholic have said, when you are a young adult who is not married in our culture, living without sexual sin is incredibly difficult. Other than sexual sins, I can think of only one other serious sin that is a problem for me.

I guess repeatedly committing a mortal sin is a bigger problem for some Catholics than for others, depending on station in life and personal temptations and weaknesses.

I don't know if I am even making sense anymore...so I am going to just shut up now.

 

[Rosa Mystica]

I guess what I'm getting at -- is that if someone is going to confession all the time to confess mortal sin, then there's a serious problem. I would think that a devoted Christian would rarely have to confess mortal sin, because to me, I have a hard time thinking that I would commit something that is "grave". Finally, maybe that's why some Catholics don't go to confession as much -- because they haven't committed mortal sin...

That's kind of what I'm getting at, and what I'm kinda thinking of right now...

Maybe a clearer definition of "grave" is needed...dunno.

Anyway, just thoughts...

Hello again, BAChristian,

I won't be as eloquent as Shelb5 was in her answer to your question, but I'll see what I can do:

1) You said that a devoted Christian would rarely have the need to confess a mortal sin, and that if one confessed the same mortal sin all the time, then there's a serious problem. My thought on this is that yes, obviously something is really wrong if an individual is confessing the same mortal sin again and again. However, I would hesitate to say that this individual is not a devoted question Christian. Here is an important thing to keep in mind: if an individual is not committed to avoiding a particular sin and confesses it w/o the firm purpose of amendment, there is no forgiveness. However, if an individual confesses to a sin, plans to work on not committing it, but knows that they might very well commit that sin again, then they are forgiven. Here's the thing: mortal sins, like venial sins, can become habitual. Habits can be very, very hard to break. It may take multiple attempts before an individual is fully free of a particular sin if it is a habit for them. Does this mean they're not a "devoted Christian"? Of course not. Not if they're trying to make amends.

2) "I have a hard time thinking that I would commit something that is 'grave' ". While you may be sincere in your statement, I would be careful about saying things like this. Truth is, some of the strongest Catholics have fallen into mortal sin in a moment of temptation. I myself have been in this position before.

3) "Maybe that's why Catholics don't go to Confession as much- because they haven't committed mortal sin." Uh...no. Quite the opposite. Many Catholics I know who don't go to Confession are avoiding b/c, "It's embarrassing to say what I've done." More often than not, they're referring to a serious sin (often of a sexual nature). While some Catholics may not attend Confession b/c they haven't done anything serious, it's not a good idea to avoid on a consistent basis. Frequent Confession can help you to become more in tune with your sins (even if they're only venial), and could help you to avoid committing more serious sins.

4) You wanted a clearer definition of "grave". Okay. To be very simplistic, "grave matter" can be thought of as any sin which offends God a great deal. A BIG sin, one that may cause a lot of sin. If you want more info on this matter, I would suggest that you ask a priest or nun who is knowledgeable in what the Church teaches (beware liberal clergy!).

Hope these insights have helped.

God Bless,
Rosa