Mormons

CardinalBaseball said:

I know a Mormon girl, and I would like to know what you think about them. Saved? Not saved? Why or why not?
Short and to the point.

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Not Christian Not saved.
But you have a great opportunity to share your faith, and change her life.

I have quite a few mormon friends and I've noticed that they seem very unwilling to discuss any very deep issues concerning their religion. They spend a lot of time trying to convince me that they're Christians which I disagree with. When I have showed them Bible verses that contradict something their church believes, they'll either tell me that it's not "official church doctrine" or that that part of the Bible must have been translated incorrectly. It's ridiculous.
However, like others have said, it's not my place to say whether individuals are saved, but if they truly believe in the book of mormon and the doctrines of their church then I would say no.
God Bless
~Ali

ChildByGrace said:

Funny that i should see this topic today. in my home group last night was looked into a bit of the Mormons beliefs and one was that they believe that the angel Micheal was Jesus.

I can't say saved or not saved as i don't know each indevidual one.

from what i know though the believe the following.

Jesus was created by God - he is not God and was created to create the world.

They do not believe in the triune God. They see the holy spirit as a force like electricity and the holdy spirit is not part of God.

They believe that only 144000 will be in Heaven with God, the rest will live in Paradise on Earth.

They believe that it is through works rather than faith that someone will get to either heaven or paradise.

Some of those things are a matter in interpration and i don't think it really affect wheather you are saved.

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I find it ironic that, although churches hold classes teaching their members how 'brainwashed' Mormons are, yet they are doing the very same thing. 'Brainwashing' (if you will) their members into believing everything that they say against the church without any form of research of their own part. It is important to look into the matter from both Mormon as well as anti-Mormon standpoints.

Most of what you just said, especially the Heaven part comes from the Jehovah's witnesses, and not from the Mormons. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (that's a mouthful, try saying it three times fast) believe that there are three levels of Heaven, and that literally everyone will be resurrected to be judged by God.

I have a question for those who insist that all Mormons are going to hell. Who are you to judge? Last time I checked, none of us have been appointed by God to say who will and will not be present with us in Heaven.

As for the beliving that Michael is Adam, also a JW belief... dont Seventh Day Adventists believe the same thing?? forgive me if I am wrong, a may be looking at anti SDA sites when it comes to this info, something I disagree with.

And for those of you who insist that all missionaries answers to hard questions is 'that hasnt been revealed yet' and have gotten mad, that is ridiculous. You've obviously been meeting with some crappy missioaries who didnt pay attention to anything they learned. I went to high school with a ton of Mormons, and I asked a lot of questions, and got some pretty interesting answers that really made me think.

People who live in glass houses...

Really, all I am saying is that we should give everyone a chance. If you truly believe that the Mormon missionaries that come to your door are decieved, then sit them down, give them a glass of water, and talk to them. Dont preach at them, dont be condescending, simply talk to them. Find out what they believe, tell them what you believe, and leave it at that. Tell them you are not interested in joining their church, but you feel it is important to show them what you believe is the truth (keep in mind, they believe that they know the truth). The important thing is to be accepting, and to understand that these are people who have been taught something from a very young age. Of course they aren't going to question it until somebody provides some *real* evidence against what they believe.

Many of you know that I tend to keep my mouth shut, and not get involved in arguments as I dont like to be in the middle of conflict, but there are some statements on this thread that just made me upset. I dont believe anyone should be condemned for believing in something that to them, makes perfect sense, even if they are mistaken.

..Pineapple..

If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved (Romans 5:9 I think..) And remember: "Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life, nobody comes to the father except through me." (John 11:6 I think, lol)

If you don't believe in Jesus' ressurection, you can't be saved. The mormon bible contradicts ours so badly that it is impossible that they can come to heaven through their beliefs (besides the fact that Jo Smith "read" a egyptian scroll that tells a deceased spirit how to breathe in the next life) But despite all this, remember to respect your friend's beliefs. They have believed this all thier life, and you cannot come in all high and mighty. They key is to be a friend of equal status. You are no better than them. Once you acknowledge that, then just be a good example. Eventually they will question why you are so good compared to them and their friends. This is true in every relationship with a non-christian. Just remember; you are not acting good. You are following Christ's example. The holy Spirit leads people to God, not you. The Spirit leads people to God THROUGH you.
Hope that helps^^

Pineapple - i wasn't throwing stones.

It was a little study and this was brought into it. Obviously i will go back to the person who gave me this information and tell them that they are wrong!

They weren't trying to brainwash us - they were triying to give us information by which to understand other beliefs better. I don't believe in brainwashing and am insulted that you think that i can't do my own research from both sides of the fence and make my own choice

They believes they have the only real gospel and regular christians aren't completely christian.
Our bible is only correct as far as it agrees with their doctrine.
Also the rules against drinking tea (see my home page) are not Biblical or correct.

ChildByGrace said:

Pineapple - i wasn't throwing stones.

It was a little study and this was brought into it. Obviously i will go back to the person who gave me this information and tell them that they are wrong!

They weren't trying to brainwash us - they were triying to give us information by which to understand other beliefs better. I don't believe in brainwashing and am insulted that you think that i can't do my own research from both sides of the fence and make my own choice

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Child By Grace,

first off I would like to apologize, as I wasnt accusing *you* of throwing stones, and I'm sorry that my post came off that way. I in no way meant to offend you, as you are definately the person least in offence of being silly in this discussion. In fact, you were simply stating facts you believed to be true, because people in authority told you so. Which is by no means wrong for any reason. I believe that if you re-read my previous post with a less defensive mindset, it wont seem so accusational. I truly did not mean for it to be. Once again I would like to apologize to you.

The day I wrote that reply, I was being a big jerk, mainly because while downtown at the library, I was walking to the busstop when I saw a nice young Mormon missionary, whom I had spent time talking with while waiting for the bus in the afternoons, being verbally and physically attacked by some stupid kids that were three times his size. This made me very angry, as they were boys I recognized from a church I attended in highschool. I think that just made me angry and in need of a rant. I apologize.

I would go back and edit my post, but I feel that would be besides the point. Instead, I offer my apologies, and hope that you will realize I am sincere and accept it. *smile* Hope you're having a great day!

..Pineapple..

pineapplelesson said:

Child By Grace,

first off I would like to apologize, as I wasnt accusing *you* of throwing stones, and I'm sorry that my post came off that way. I in no way meant to offend you, as you are definately the person least in offence of being silly in this discussion. In fact, you were simply stating facts you believed to be true, because people in authority told you so. Which is by no means wrong for any reason. I believe that if you re-read my previous post with a less defensive mindset, it wont seem so accusational. I truly did not mean for it to be. Once again I would like to apologize to you.

The day I wrote that reply, I was being a big jerk, mainly because while downtown at the library, I was walking to the busstop when I saw a nice young Mormon missionary, whom I had spent time talking with while waiting for the bus in the afternoons, being verbally and physically attacked by some stupid kids that were three times his size. This made me very angry, as they were boys I recognized from a church I attended in highschool. I think that just made me angry and in need of a rant. I apologize.

I would go back and edit my post, but I feel that would be besides the point. Instead, I offer my apologies, and hope that you will realize I am sincere and accept it. *smile* Hope you're having a great day!

..Pineapple..

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Thank you so much for that Pineapple.

I can see why you would be quite annoyed having witnessed what you did. I wouldn't condone that behaviour at all and can't believe that people can be like that - especially people who say that they are a child of Christ.

ChildByGrace said:

Thank you so much for that Pineapple.

I can see why you would be quite annoyed having witnessed what you did. I wouldn't condone that behaviour at all and can't believe that people can be like that - especially people who say that they are a child of Christ.

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Thankyou so much for accepting my apology. I was quite upset that I had made you upset. It was just a big cycle of upsetness!!

Hate to change the subject, but I noticed that you're going to Australia! How come? Australia is gorgeous, I bet you will have a great time!

..Pineapple..

CardinalBaseball said:

I know a Mormon girl, and I would like to know what you think about them. Saved? Not saved? Why or why not?
Short and to the point.

Click to expand...

Not saved. They serve a different Jesus.

WHAT THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHES:

1. God has godess wives "this doctrine that there is a mother in heaven was affirmed in all plainness by the first presidency of the church(Bruce R. McConkie,Apostle,Mormon Doctine,p.516)

2. Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers.(Milton R.Hunter,First Council of Seventy,The Gospel Through the Ages,p.15).



3.There are many Gods "a council of Gods"(Joseph Smith,Founder and First Prophet,History of the Church,vol.6,pp.308,474).

4.Man may become God.(Joseph Smith,History of the Church,vol.6,p.306)

5.Jesus was married.(Orson Hyde,Apostle,Journal of Discourses,vol.2,p.82).

6.God the father was a man who once dwelt on an earth.(Joseph Smith,History of the Church,vol.6,p.305).

7.The Bible is incomplete and has serious translation errors.(Bruce R. McConkie,Mormon Doctrine,pp.82,83).

8.The Book of Mormon was written by God through Joseph Smith.

9."I have more to boast of then ever any man had.I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of adem,A large majority of the whole have stood beside me.Neither Paul,John,peter nor Jesus ever did it.I boast that no man ever did such a work as I.The Followers of Jesus ran away from Him;but the latter-day saints never ran away from me yet."-Joseph smith(Joseph smith,History of the Church,vol.6,pp.408-09)


10.The Book of Mormon teaches that the disobedience of Adam and Eve in eating the forbidden fruit was necessary so that they could have children and bring joy to mankind (2 Nephi 2:23-25)


11.The book of Mormon says Jesus was born in Jerusalem (Alma 7:10)

12.Joseph Smith was a prophet







WHAT THE WORD OF GOD TEACHES THROUGH THE HOLY BIBLE:





1.There is absolutely no mention of any wives of God.There will be no marrying in heaven.(Matthew 22:29-30)


2.The real Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.He is God's son(John 1:1-14).Satan was a created angel-not a son of God.(Isaiah 14:12).Jesus created all things,and in Him the fullness of God dwells! (Colossians 1:15-20;Philippians 2:5-11;Hebrews 1:1-13).


3.There was,is,and always will be only one God(Isaiah 43:10-11;44:6-8;45:5-6,18-22;Deuteronomy 6:4;32:39;James 2:19).

4.The great lie of Satan from the beginning was that man may become a god(Genesis 3:1-5;Isaiah 14:12-15;Ezekiel 28:1-10).

5.
Jesus and His disciples were guests at Cana(John 2:2). Read John 2:1-12.This Mormon doctrine is generally not taught openly today.Marriage in a Mormon temple(called celestial marriage) is mandatory to progress to becoming a god in Mormonism.To fit the theology of Mormonism,the Mormon "Jesus" has to be married-or He would only be a ministering servant of those in Mormonism's heaven who have "celestial marriage."

6.God was never a man.He created man! God has been God from all eternity to all eternity (Psalm 41:13;90:2,102:25-27;Romans 1:22-23)

7.The Bible is God's Word;and the word of God will stand forever(Isaiah 40:8,1 Peter 1:25;2 Timothy 3:16).

8."But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other then the one we preached to you,let him be eternally condemned!"(Galatians 1:8)

9.No prophet of God ever made a statment like Joseph Smith's.King Neduchadnezzar had a similer pride to Joseph Smith's.He was driven out by God to live with the animals.(see Daniel 4:28-33)

10.In contrast, the Bible specifically declares that Adams transgression was a sinful act of rebellion that unleashed the power of sin and death in the human heart and throughout Gods perfect world (Genesis 3:16-19; Romans 5:12; 8:20-21). There is no Biblical support for the view that Adam and Eve could only fulfill the command to "be fruitful and multiply" (Genesis 1:28) by disobeying Gods command regarding the forbidden fruit (Genesis 2:17). The Book of Mormon teaching that these divine commands are contradictory, and that God expected Adam and Eve to figure out that in reality He wanted them to break the latter command ("of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it") in order to keep the former ("be fruitful and multiply"), has no basis in logic or the Biblical text, and attributes equivocation to God.

11.Jesus was not born in Jerusalem,He was born in Bethlehem as the Bible says in (Matt. 2:1; Luke 2:1-7).


12.Hebrews 1:1-2 and Luke 16:16 tell us that although we used to have prophets in the Old Testament, we no longer need them because we have Jesus Christ. Deuteronomy 18:20-22 tell us the test of a prophet is if any man speaks for God and it doesn't happen, he is not a prophet of God. If we apply this test to Joseph Smith we find there were many prophesies that never came true.

Joseph said that God had commanded him to tell the people He would return in 56 years (History of the Church, 2:182). Joseph Smith said this in 1835, so adding 56 to 1835 brings us to 1891. Christ did not return in 1891, because He said that when He returns, every eye will see Him. (Rev 1:7)

In another revelation given by Smith, he says in Doctrine & Covenants, Section 84:1-6 that a temple would be built within a generation in the western boundaries of Missouri. A generation to the Christian world is generally recognized as 40 years. However, let's use the Mormon definition of a generation as 110 years. This was recorded in 1832, so 166 years have passed and there is still no temple in the western boundaries of Missouri and there's certainly nobody still alive from that generation.

True that.

CardinalBaseball said:

I know a Mormon girl, and I would like to know what you think about them. Saved? Not saved? Why or why not?
Short and to the point.

Click to expand...

Likely, not saved...because the doctrine teaches them that they MUST do other things to make the atonement of Christ "effective." And they believe this, and try by all means to save themselves, or be a higher god by doing works, going door-to-door, tithing, etc, etc....maybe there are some that are saved if they believed in their hearts that Jesus is Lord and accepted Him....but they tend to lean on their own works for Salvation...so I doubt it too...

Sad, but I know a lot of Mormons...one is an old friend...I'm trying to tell them the truth, what the bible says, in contrast to the book of Mormon....you know one of them told me? She told me that they do not compare the bible with the book of mormon. bad mistake...

Bain_Adaneth said:

you know one of them told me? She told me that they do not compare the bible with the book of mormon. bad mistake...

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I agree, I was lucky to have had a New Jerusalem Bible and because of my love for the New Testament, I was finding things in the Book of Mormon all the time that didnt match up.

But like other Mormons, I would tell myself it was the Bible that had to be wrong; How could the Book of Mormon be wrong?, it was translated by a Prophet.

It was only when i realised the New Jerusalem Bible was newly translated from original scriptures and understood how it was done that i finally started questioning the Book of Mormon.

I did take a bit of a side step into sinful ways before coming back to Christ after that, but have been trying to stay on the straight and narrow path ever since.

I hope that God blesses those people in the Mormon church as well as the rest of us with wisdom and love.

Galatians 1
8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

A bit harsh?

LJSGM said:

Galatians 1
8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

A bit harsh?

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Yes. But it's the rules!