Mormonism and the Free State of Jones

[smaneck]

Many of you may have seen the Free State of Jones which tells the story of Newton Knight who leads a rebellion against the Confederacy in Jones County, Mississippi. Right now I'm watching a fascinating documentary on the Knight family on PBS. If you watched the movie you know he had two wives, one black and one white. Grace Knight, the black wife became a Mormon and one of the scholars in the documentary commented that at the time Mormons were more accepting of blacks than other Christian churches, which I find interesting. One might expect Newton Knight to have become a Mormon given that he was a bigamist, but we don't really have any evidence for that, but Mormonism appears to have been very popular in Jones County. I wonder if any of the Mormons know anything about this?

 

[Zoness]

Grace Knight, the black wife became a Mormon and one of the scholars in the documentary commented that at the time Mormons were more accepting of blacks than other Christian churches

I find this bit particularly interesting especially since before 1978, blacks were thought to be cursed with the mark of Cain and were thus banned from the Priesthood. Granted, many white American Protestants believed similar things during that time so maybe that doesn't make Mormons particularly special in that regard.

 

[smaneck]

Mormon views on race didn't have anything to do with Cain as far as I know. It had something to do with what was supposed to have happened in the pre-existence. But Mormons explicitly prohibited slavery.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Grace Knight, the black wife became a Mormon and one of the scholars in the documentary commented that at the time Mormons were more accepting of blacks than other Christian churches, which I find interesting. One might expect Newton Knight to have become a Mormon given that he was a bigamist, but we don't really have any evidence for that, but Mormonism appears to have been very popular in Jones County. I wonder if any of the Mormons know anything about this?

The LDS church as anti-slavery, as opposed to some* Christian churches which used the Bible to defend slavery.

The LDS church allowed black to be members, join in, and be an active part of the congregation (though for a time they could not be priests). As opposed to some* Christian churches which forbid blacks from joining and were strictly segregated.

*Some = a portion, not all.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I find this bit particularly interesting especially since before 1978, blacks were thought to be cursed with the mark of Cain and were thus banned from the Priesthood. Granted, many white American Protestants believed similar things during that time so maybe that doesn't make Mormons particularly special in that regard.

AFAIK, it was Brigham Young that prohibited black men from receiving the priesthood, this is what was reversed in 1978. There were, from what I understand, black priesthood holders during Smith's lifetime. I'm somewhat curious about the positions of non-Brighamite Latter Day Saint groups, because while Brigham Young is recognized as the successor to Joseph Smith, Jr. in the mainstream LDS church, there were several competing claims of succession, the largest alternative claim was that for Smith's son, Joseph Smith III which came to be known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (RLDS) and is today known as the Community of Christ. But there were still even others, such as the followers of James Strang.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[durangodawood]

I find this bit particularly interesting especially since before 1978, blacks were thought to be cursed with the mark of Cain and were thus banned from the Priesthood.....

Blacks were not considered fully human by the Church until 1978???

That simply invalidates the whole religion in my eyes: that the official church could hold to such an abomination until so late in the day.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Blacks were not considered fully human by the Church until 1978???

That simply invalidates the whole religion in my eyes: that the official church could hold to such an abomination until so late in the day.

Now that's a lie and you need to take it back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[durangodawood]

Now that's a lie and you need to take it back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought black people werent considered fit for all positions in the Church until 1978...?

 

[durangodawood]

I thought black people werent considered fit for all positions in the Church until 1978...?

Was I wrong?

 

[withwonderingawe]

I thought black people werent considered fit for all positions in the Church until 1978...?

That has nothing to do with being fully human, sons of God worthy of salvation and exaltation. I was taught as a young person that a black person who had bowed his knee to God would make it into the Celestial Kingdom before me.

Sorry it took so long to give you an answer but I wanted to make it a complete answer.

Some Basic Mormon Theology
Luke 12
47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:

Jacob 3
"....and also, remember that ye (parents) may, because of your filthiness, bring your children unto destruction, and their sins be heaped upon your heads at the last day."

And now my understanding of the principle and history, a fellow Mormon may disagree with me.

1, In the beginning all men had the priesthood Adam passed to his sons and all were priest.

2, Those who have the gospel, who hold the priesthood if they don't prepare themselves their judgement will be more server than those who don't. If a man is a bad example to his children and his children fall into sin their sins will be held accountable on their father's head. The children are forgiven and receive very few stripes. (they could bow the knee to Christ receive none)

3, When Cain murdered his brother he says to God " and from thy face shall I be hid". He was separated from God and became a son of perdition. Lot's of people murder and are not considered perdition, they can actually fine forgiveness but not Cain. Cain's grandson Lamech also murder following his father's example and in Mormon theology it goes beyond that. Lamech and his wives formed a secret combination of oaths and murder to get gain which they passed to their children. Thus the sins of the children are all placed on the head of Cain.

4, Now was the black skins of African people really the mark placed on Cain? I really don't know however there is a story line which follows that belief.

Cain's blood line was carried through Ham's wife (see our Book of Abraham), Ham also sins against his father and his priesthood is taken away. His children go into Egypt and then Africa. But there is another point which is often missed Japeth children didn't get the priesthood either only Shem's family receives that birthright blessing. Melchizedek/Shem passed to Abraham and down to his family through different directions, Jethro was a priest. Eventually they lose this higher birthright priesthood and have the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood to replace it. John the Baptist is the last of that order.

Jesus is the head of the order of Melchizedek and he ordains his Apostles to that order but once they die the priesthood is lost, the apostasy or falling away occurs and the world goes without it. For 2000 years no one white, black or brown has the priesthood. The Holy Spirit is here, the light of Christ is here but the authority to act in the name of God is lost.

5, Then in 1820 "as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west" the Heavens were opened again and Joseph had his first vision. That was the fulfillment of Peter's prophecy in Acts 3 where he said

"....when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

First John the Baptist came and restored the Aaronic priesthood then Peter, James and John came and restored the Melchizedek priesthood. When that happened in order to restore "all things" the priesthood had to be restored to all of Adam's family including Cain's children. In doing that they would now be responsible for their own sins.

6, Joseph Smith when asked about the blacks said (i'm greatly paraphrasing) Black people are just as normal as anyone else, educate them and they will outshine their masters. He ordained several black men to the priesthood, these men followed Brigham Young to Utah. Joseph had a plan to end slavery without a war and he ran for president with that on his platform, it was one of the reasons he was martyred. His plan of course was never put into place and blacks remained slaves for another 20 years.

7,To have the priesthood one must "honor" it, that means to be willing to make covenants and to go whereever the Lord calls you. If the Prophet calls up one day and says the Lord has called you on a mission to England you say, when do you want me to leave? If you are asked to teach a Sunday school class you say okay I'll be there and you show up.

BUT if one is chained to a wall that can not happen. You must have self determination to hold the priesthood, you have to be able to choose right from wrong. To make the covenants in the temple you have to be able to form an eternal family unit and not have your wife sold off or raped by the master.

And so because of sin, not the Black's sin but the sins of white America the priesthood was withheld again for a space of time. With all the bigoted statements some Mormons made they always said one day the blacks will have the priesthood and receive all of the blessings with it. All of these blessings will be retroactive clear back to Cain's sons and daughters, their temple covenants and sealing of families will be done. On judgement day their stripes will be few because Cain carries their sins on his head. In the long run it is a blessing.

8, The Blacks still struggle with racism and didn't achieve full real freedom until the 1970s with Johnson's civil rights bills, when they finally obtain the right to vote in some states. Church leaders started trying to make the change to allow the Blacks to have the priesthood in the 1950s. They did a search through church records to see when and why BY changed the policy Joseph Smith had started, they could find nothing. It seems he arbitrarily just changed the policy without running it threw the Council of the Twelve, so did God tell him to do this or was it an act of his own bigotry? We don't know except that God let it happen. We lost Zion because of our sin , we lost the united order because of our own sins, we lost plural marriage because of our own sins, so this was similar. As I understand it at one point they had a vote which had one holdout who wanted a direct revelation from God. When this person passed and a new Apostle was called another vote as held and this time it was unanimous, at that moment they say it was a day of Pentecostal and the Lord confirmed their decision.

9, There has been much speculating on why we are born where we are, black brown and white. We believe that we lived in the spirit world before we come here to earth to learn the difference between good and evil. All who come to this earth sided with Michael and his angels against Satan and his angels at the time of the rebellion.

It has been put forth even by leaders like Bruce R. McConkie that the spirits who entered black mortal bodies were fence sitters that some how they were less valiant in the spirit world and that's why they could not have the priesthood, BUT even Brigham Young shot that down.

"There were no neutral spirits in heaven at the time of the rebellion. All took sides. He said if anyone said that he heard the Prophet Joseph say that the spirits of the Blacks were neutral in heaven, he would not believe them, for he heard Joseph say to the contrary. All spirits are pure that come from the presence of God." (Wilford Woodruff's Journal, entry dated Dec. 25, 1869.)

So why McConkie and others wandered off down that line of speculation is odd.

Later McConkie said;
"Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or President George Q. Cannon or whomsoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world.

We get our truth and our light line upon line and precept upon precept. We have now had added a new flood of intelligence and light on this particular subject, and it erases all the darkness and all the views and all the thoughts of the past. They don’t matter any more."

It reminds me of Peter and Paul coming to the understanding that the Gentiles would now become part of the covenant.

I've contemplated on this and just maybe it was the other way around, maybe they were more valiant and didn't need to go though the responsibility of having the priesthood, their stripes will be few if any.

10, The Book of Mormon is a story about racism and you can't have a story about racism without racist remarks. What it comes down to is that we won't overcome our racist tendencies until we all "come unto Christ".

2 Nephi 26
the Lord.... inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.

4 Nephi
15 And it came to pass that there was no contention in the land, because of the love of God which did dwell in the hearts of the people.
16 And there were no envyings, nor strifes, nor tumults, nor whoredoms, nor lyings, nor murders, nor any manner of lasciviousness; and surely there could not be a happier people among all the people who had been created by the hand of God.
17 There were no robbers, nor murderers, neither were there Lamanites, nor any manner of -ites; but they were in one, the children of Christ, and heirs to the kingdom of God.
18 And how blessed were they! For the Lord did bless them in all their doings; yea, even they were blessed and prospered

 

[tickingclocker]

Mormon views on race didn't have anything to do with Cain as far as I know. It had something to do with what was supposed to have happened in the pre-existence. But Mormons explicitly prohibited slavery.

That's not quite accurate. Brigham Young, the person who took over running the LDS church after mormonism's original founder died, stated many times that Cain's skin was turned black as part of his "mark of the curse" God was supposed to have given him. (The resulting curse of Cain assuming it was through his own prideful efforts that his sacrifice to God of what "he supplied" instead of the Lord, was to never again possess the ability to grow his own food.) "Curses" on black skin were once popular myths in the 1800's to support slavery, and BY went along with it. However, there is no support for this anywhere in Christian scripture. Cain's unknown, undescribed "mark" was given to him--at Cain's request--by God for his protection, so no one would murder him like he murdered his brother, Abel. (Keep in mind, back then an "eye for an eye" was the standard rule, and Cain was fully aware of that.) As far as we know from scripture only Cain carried this mysterious "mark". For how long no one knows.

Brigham Young additionally perpetuated the Ham/Canaan Curse of Genesis 9:20-27, as well as the LDS classic "war in heaven" curse mark on "unvaliant" African skin.

In a sermon on March 8, 1863, Young stated, “Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” (LDS Journal of Discourses, 10:110)

However, similar to Cain's "mark", race or skin color is never mentioned in either in scripture. These myths resulted in black pigmented skin being cursed three different ways to Sunday within the LDS. Then "out of the blue" during the Civil Rights Movement, the assorted LDS curse "marks" on African, brown, and Native American red skin were "lifted/forgiven"... without explanation... by the Mormon god in 1979. (I'm unaware of Asian skin ever being scrutinized by the LDS.) The LDS has recently admitted that the whole "war in heaven" story was nothing more than the product of Brigham Young's and other past LDS leaders inherent bigotry in an official essay entitled, "Race and the Priesthood".

Utah didn't become a state (1896) until long after the Civil War ended.

I haven't seen the movie, and honestly don't intend to. However, I would be interested in knowing where the OP got their statistics from for a heavy Mormon population within Jones County, NC. There is a heavy Mormon presence centered in Independence, MO, of almost all the branches of mormonism except the FLDS (polygamy branch). That is interesting that Jones was a polygamist and one of his wives later became a Mormon. Did she stay with Jones afterwards? Did she leave him and go to Utah? If he never joined the LDS, I wonder what happened to her if she left Jones. The LDS would never have let her marry another white man.

Obviously we know Jones was unsuccessful in his endeavor, although the county was named after his family.

 

[tickingclocker]

The LDS church as anti-slavery, as opposed to some* Christian churches which used the Bible to defend slavery.

The LDS church allowed black to be members, join in, and be an active part of the congregation (though for a time they could not be priests). As opposed to some* Christian churches which forbid blacks from joining and were strictly segregated.

*Some = a portion, not all.

The LDS was openly anti-black despite its "anti-slavery" attitude as indicated in more ways than biblical myths perpetuated by some Southern churches to defend slavery. However, strangely enough many early LDS leaders demeaned and threatened anti-slavery abolitionists instead of welcoming them with open arms, including Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. Despite its position, LDS founder JS upheld the laws regarding slaves and slaveholders, and affirmed "Ham's Curse" as placing his descendants into slavery, "to the shame and confusion of all who have cried out against the South..."---Smith, Joseph Jr., LDS Messenger and Advocate. Vol. 2, #7, p. 290.

"Not long since a gentleman of the Presbyterian faith came to this town (Kirtland) and proposed to lecture upon the abolition question. Knowing that there was a large branch of the church of Latter Day Saints in this place, who, as a people, are liberal in our sentiments; he no doubt anticipated great success in establishing his doctrine among us. But in this he was mistaken. The doctrine of Christ and the systems of men are at issue and consequently will not harmonize together."
--Joseph Smith Jr., as quoted in the "Messenger and Advocate" Vol. 2, #7, Kirtland, OH, April 1836.

 

[tickingclocker]

Now that's a lie and you need to take it back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The poster was asking a question, not making a statement. Notice the question marks after the first sentence? They give a "if then" statement after this. IF. Not IS.

It's not true that Mormons believed black people were not human. That was a myth of convenience Southern slavers believed to support slavery, that black people were animals or "beasts of burden" instead of human. No wonder the country divided in war over such repulsive falsehoods.

To believe the assumption that all slavers were "Christian" is laughable. Including to Christians themselves. The greatest and most recognized worship hymn ever written, "Amazing Grace", was penned by a former slave ship owner who saw the light, John Newton.

The LDS believes that people of color (except Asian) were considered "unworthy" to perform their church's rituals in their temples, or the men to hold their idea of priesthood, for their traditional reasons as stated above until 1979 when their Mormon god "lifted all assorted curses and marks" from them.

However, the point of the post is really not about slavery. It's about Jones being a polygamist and his wife becoming Mormon.

 

[withwonderingawe]

In a sermon on March 8, 1863, Young stated, “Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” (LDS Journal of Discourses, 10:110)

He is talking about the chosen seed, ie the house of Israel or Jews and this passage from Deut 7
3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.

The rest of your posting is just full of anti Mormon nonsense.

 

[durangodawood]

That has nothing to do with being fully human, sons of God worthy of salvation and exaltation. I was taught as a young person that a black person who had bowed his knee to God would make it into the Celestial Kingdom before me.

Sorry it took so long to give you an answer but I wanted to make it a complete answer.

Some Basic Mormon Theology
Luke 12
47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:

Jacob 3
"....and also, remember that ye (parents) may, because of your filthiness, bring your children unto destruction, and their sins be heaped upon your heads at the last day."

And now my understanding of the principle and history, a fellow Mormon may disagree with me.

1, In the beginning all men had the priesthood Adam passed to his sons and all were priest.

2, Those who have the gospel, who hold the priesthood if they don't prepare themselves their judgement will be more server than those who don't. If a man is a bad example to his children and his children fall into sin their sins will be held accountable on their father's head. The children are forgiven and receive very few stripes. (they could bow the knee to Christ receive none)

3, When Cain murdered his brother he says to God " and from thy face shall I be hid". He was separated from God and became a son of perdition. Lot's of people murder and are not considered perdition, they can actually fine forgiveness but not Cain. Cain's grandson Lamech also murder following his father's example and in Mormon theology it goes beyond that. Lamech and his wives formed a secret combination of oaths and murder to get gain which they passed to their children. Thus the sins of the children are all placed on the head of Cain.

4, Now was the black skins of African people really the mark placed on Cain? I really don't know however there is a story line which follows that belief.

Cain's blood line was carried through Ham's wife (see our Book of Abraham), Ham also sins against his father and his priesthood is taken away. His children go into Egypt and then Africa. But there is another point which is often missed Japeth children didn't get the priesthood either only Shem's family receives that birthright blessing. Melchizedek/Shem passed to Abraham and down to his family through different directions, Jethro was a priest. Eventually they lose this higher birthright priesthood and have the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood to replace it. John the Baptist is the last of that order.

Jesus is the head of the order of Melchizedek and he ordains his Apostles to that order but once they die the priesthood is lost, the apostasy or falling away occurs and the world goes without it. For 2000 years no one white, black or brown has the priesthood. The Holy Spirit is here, the light of Christ is here but the authority to act in the name of God is lost.

5, Then in 1820 "as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west" the Heavens were opened again and Joseph had his first vision. That was the fulfillment of Peter's prophecy in Acts 3 where he said

"....when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

First John the Baptist came and restored the Aaronic priesthood then Peter, James and John came and restored the Melchizedek priesthood. When that happened in order to restore "all things" the priesthood had to be restored to all of Adam's family including Cain's children. In doing that they would now be responsible for their own sins.

6, Joseph Smith when asked about the blacks said (i'm greatly paraphrasing) Black people are just as normal as anyone else, educate them and they will outshine their masters. He ordained several black men to the priesthood, these men followed Brigham Young to Utah. Joseph had a plan to end slavery without a war and he ran for president with that on his platform, it was one of the reasons he was martyred. His plan of course was never put into place and blacks remained slaves for another 20 years.

7,To have the priesthood one must "honor" it, that means to be willing to make covenants and to go whereever the Lord calls you. If the Prophet calls up one day and says the Lord has called you on a mission to England you say, when do you want me to leave? If you are asked to teach a Sunday school class you say okay I'll be there and you show up.

BUT if one is chained to a wall that can not happen. You must have self determination to hold the priesthood, you have to be able to choose right from wrong. To make the covenants in the temple you have to be able to form an eternal family unit and not have your wife sold off or raped by the master.

And so because of sin, not the Black's sin but the sins of white America the priesthood was withheld again for a space of time. With all the bigoted statements some Mormons made they always said one day the blacks will have the priesthood and receive all of the blessings with it. All of these blessings will be retroactive clear back to Cain's sons and daughters, their temple covenants and sealing of families will be done. On judgement day their stripes will be few because Cain carries their sins on his head. In the long run it is a blessing.

8, The Blacks still struggle with racism and didn't achieve full real freedom until the 1970s with Johnson's civil rights bills, when they finally obtain the right to vote in some states. Church leaders started trying to make the change to allow the Blacks to have the priesthood in the 1950s. They did a search through church records to see when and why BY changed the policy Joseph Smith had started, they could find nothing. It seems he arbitrarily just changed the policy without running it threw the Council of the Twelve, so did God tell him to do this or was it an act of his own bigotry? We don't know except that God let it happen. We lost Zion because of our sin , we lost the united order because of our own sins, we lost plural marriage because of our own sins, so this was similar. As I understand it at one point they had a vote which had one holdout who wanted a direct revelation from God. When this person passed and a new Apostle was called another vote as held and this time it was unanimous, at that moment they say it was a day of Pentecostal and the Lord confirmed their decision.

9, There has been much speculating on why we are born where we are, black brown and white. We believe that we lived in the spirit world before we come here to earth to learn the difference between good and evil. All who come to this earth sided with Michael and his angels against Satan and his angels at the time of the rebellion.

It has been put forth even by leaders like Bruce R. McConkie that the spirits who entered black mortal bodies were fence sitters that some how they were less valiant in the spirit world and that's why they could not have the priesthood, BUT even Brigham Young shot that down.

"There were no neutral spirits in heaven at the time of the rebellion. All took sides. He said if anyone said that he heard the Prophet Joseph say that the spirits of the Blacks were neutral in heaven, he would not believe them, for he heard Joseph say to the contrary. All spirits are pure that come from the presence of God." (Wilford Woodruff's Journal, entry dated Dec. 25, 1869.)

So why McConkie and others wandered off down that line of speculation is odd.

Later McConkie said;
"Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or President George Q. Cannon or whomsoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world.

We get our truth and our light line upon line and precept upon precept. We have now had added a new flood of intelligence and light on this particular subject, and it erases all the darkness and all the views and all the thoughts of the past. They don’t matter any more."

It reminds me of Peter and Paul coming to the understanding that the Gentiles would now become part of the covenant.

I've contemplated on this and just maybe it was the other way around, maybe they were more valiant and didn't need to go though the responsibility of having the priesthood, their stripes will be few if any.

10, The Book of Mormon is a story about racism and you can't have a story about racism without racist remarks. What it comes down to is that we won't overcome our racist tendencies until we all "come unto Christ".

2 Nephi 26
the Lord.... inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.

4 Nephi
15 And it came to pass that there was no contention in the land, because of the love of God which did dwell in the hearts of the people.
16 And there were no envyings, nor strifes, nor tumults, nor whoredoms, nor lyings, nor murders, nor any manner of lasciviousness; and surely there could not be a happier people among all the people who had been created by the hand of God.
17 There were no robbers, nor murderers, neither were there Lamanites, nor any manner of -ites; but they were in one, the children of Christ, and heirs to the kingdom of God.
18 And how blessed were they! For the Lord did bless them in all their doings; yea, even they were blessed and prospered

This is really hard to puzzle through.

But the gist I'm getting is that the inferior regard for blacks we saw in the LDS church was some mix of Mormon theology and Church politics.

Finally in 1978, the theology was revised. Honestly that seems awfully late in the game for a church that sets itself up as moral leaders rather than moral recalcitrants. Seems like they had to be dragged into contemporary morality.

 

[withwonderingawe]

This is really hard to puzzle through.

But the gist I'm getting is that the inferior regard for blacks we saw in the LDS church was some mix of Mormon theology and Church politics.

Finally in 1978, the theology was revised. Honestly that seems awfully late in the game for a church that sets itself up as moral leaders rather than moral recalcitrants. Seems like they had to be dragged into contemporary morality.

Mormons were never part of the KKK, that wasn't a mob Mormons demonstrating in Little Rock.

 

[durangodawood]

Mormons were never part of the KKK, that wasn't a mob Mormons demonstrating in Little Rock.

I know. As far as I know, Mormon's arent personally any more racist than anyone else.

But the LDS church itself really clung to a horrible bit of racist doctrine/theology for an awfully long time.

 

[withwonderingawe]

was some mix of Mormon theology and Church politics.

George Washington was born with slaves taking care of him. He just assumed that's the way life was. He changed over the years and by the time he died he wrote into his will that his slaves should go free. When the church started many people came into it with different religions and cultures. Those cultures had different assumptions about life and reality which reflected the world they lived in throwing that off took generations.

Black people in America according to the Eleventh Edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica (1911):

• evolutionary plane: low: measurements of their skulls and bones show that they are closer to apes than to white people – though white people do have more apelike hair.
• hair: more like wool than “true hair”.
• intelligence: “the mental inferiority of the negro to the white or yellow races is a fact”. Black children were “sharp, intelligent and full of vivacity, but on approaching the adult period a gradual change set in. The intellect seemed to become clouded, animation giving place to a sort of lethargy, briskness yielding to indolence. ” Causes:
  • psychological: “the arrest or even deterioration in mental development is no doubt very largely due to the fact that after puberty sexual matters take the first place in the negro’s life and thoughts.”
  • physical: “the growth of the brain is … arrested by the premature closing of the cranial sutures and lateral pressure of the frontal bone.”
  • evolutionary: “the easy conditions of tropical life and the fertility of the soil have reduced the struggle for existence to a minimum.”
• better than whites: “negroes far surpass white men in acuteness of vision, hearing, sense of direction and topography.”
• temperament: “very similar to that of a child, normally good-natured and cheerful, but subject to sudden fits of emotion and passion during which he is capable of performing acts of singular atrocity, impressionable, vain, but often exhibiting in the capacity of servant a dog-like fidelity which has stood the supreme test.”....
• ...morals: Crime rate is the “best available index of moral progress or retrogression”. In 1904 in the South blacks were 5.5 times more likely to be put in prison than whites; in the North, 9 times. Records show that the black crime rate had dropped considerably since 1890, but that is probably a mistake. Also keep in mind that “thecomparative infrequency of crime among slaves, even if it existed, is no proof of theabsence of criminal tendencies and actions.”....
• slavery: it civilized blacks and “furnished industrial training to many slaves”.
• freedom: the lowest tenth is “perhaps … worse off than in slavery.” It is “too early to say” whether blacks will be “serviceable” and remain “a vital and essential part of the life of the nation”, as they were as slaves.
• 
  
• abagond.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/black-people-according-to-the-1911-britannica/
  

 

[durangodawood]

1978 is WAY late for any organization claiming a both a special connection to truth and moral authority.

 

[withwonderingawe]

1978 is WAY late for any organization claiming a both a special connection to truth and moral authority.

I think the claim that Mormons were racist is way over blown, black people were always welcome in our Church and could be baptized, receive blessings of healing, have their babies blessed extra. When the ban was lifted there was dancing in the streets of Provo.

During the years leading up to the change the Church kept getting letters from different people in Africa. They would send them lesson material and Books of Mormon. But the leadership was prompted by the Holy Ghost to wait on the missionaries. In several of the different countries they had major civil wars where thousands were killed and so the church waited. Then when the priesthood was restored and they sent over missionaries and began baptizing. They found many churches already establish and ready. Many of these lovely people had had remarkable dreams which brought them into the Church. This article will tell you about it;

African Converts Without Baptism

speeches.byu.edu/talks/e-dale-lebaron_african-converts-without-baptism/

My nephew went to Zimbabwe on his mission he loved it, baptized left and right.