LDS Mormon: There is only one way to know God...

[Rescued One]

A Mormon says: "There is only one way to know God and that is to keep the commandments"

The 1981 Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual affirms that teaching for Mormons.

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, c. 1981, Enrichment G, p. 395

"Then what you're saying is that God became God by obedience to the gospel program, which culminates in eternal marriage."
Achieving a Celestial Marriage, c. 1976, 1992, p.4

Per Mormonism, what must a person do to know God?

The long list of requirements is lost in cyberspace. But I'll post it again.

 

[He is the way]

(New Testament | 1 John 2:3 - 6)

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 

[dzheremi]

(New Testament | 1 John 2:3 - 6)

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

The contention among the Mormons as per the quote is that God 'became' God by following the commandments. If we are to believe that God himself rose to that stature in that way, then why doesn't your quoted portion above say "And hereby He knows Himself"? Clearly the verses you've brought up are about the ways by which others may come to know God, not God's own 'self-knowledge' or what have you.

Please produce such a verse about God knowing Himself through keeping His own commandments...

 

[He is the way]

The contention among the Mormons as per the quote is that God 'became' God by following the commandments. If we are to believe that God himself rose to that stature in that way, then why doesn't your quoted portion above say "And hereby He knows Himself"? Clearly the verses you've brought up are about the ways by which others may come to know God, not God's own 'self-knowledge' or what have you.

Please produce such a verse about God knowing Himself through keeping His own commandments...

I believe this thread about how we know God, not about how God knows Himself. That being said we do know that Jesus kept the commandments and that He is able to perfect us also.

 

[Rescued One]

"To be exalted, we first must place our faith in Jesus Christ and then endure in that faith to the end of our lives. Our faith in Him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey His commandments.

"He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:

1. We must be baptized.
2. We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
3. Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
4. We must receive the temple endowment.
5. We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.
6. In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:
7. 1.We must be baptized.
8. 2.Love God and our neighbors.
9. 3.Repent of our wrongdoings.
10. 4.Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
11. 5. Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
12. 6.Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
13. 7. Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
14. 8. Have family and individual prayers every day.
15. 9.Teach the gospel to others by word and example.
16. 10. Study the scriptures
17. 11. Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.
18. 12. Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow His direction in our individual lives.
19. Gospel Principles, c. 1978, 2009, Chapter 47, p. 277-278

(You also have to tithe and keep the dietary laws if you want to have the temple endowments and marriage for time and eternity.)

It's obvious that they believe that non-Mormons don't know God.

 

[Goodhuman]

"To be exalted, we first must place our faith in Jesus Christ and then endure in that faith to the end of our lives. Our faith in Him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey His commandments.

"He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:

1. We must be baptized.
2. We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
3. Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
4. We must receive the temple endowment.
5. We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.
6. In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:
7. 1.We must be baptized.
8. 2.Love God and our neighbors.
9. 3.Repent of our wrongdoings.
10. 4.Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
11. 5. Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
12. 6.Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
13. 7. Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
14. 8. Have family and individual prayers every day.
15. 9.Teach the gospel to others by word and example.
16. 10. Study the scriptures
17. 11. Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.
18. 12. Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow His direction in our individual lives.
19. Gospel Principles, c. 1978, 2009, Chapter 47, p. 277-278

(You also have to tithe and keep the dietary laws if you want to have the temple endowments and marriage for time and eternity.)

It's obvious that they believe that non-Mormons don't know God.

How can one become god, if he have sins? This is not possible, God don't have sins. Also angel can't become if he have sins, they don't have sins, too. They are sinless and pure, like God.

 

[Ran77]

(New Testament | 1 John 2:3 - 6)

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

I was going to jump in this conversation, but you've got this handled.

 

[mmksparbud]

(New Testament | 1 John 2:3 - 6)

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

You keep parroting this, when you very well know that this is not true! You do not believe that keeping God's 10 commandments are what this is all about---salvation---exaltation specifically---demands way more than the 10. The LDS have much more than must be done---much more. And again---you do not worship the God of the bible and therefore you are constantly braking the commandment to have no other God's, not to mention---again---you have never kept the 4th commandment as written by God. You keep the 4th as man has rewritten it.
You do not walk as Jesus walked---He had no grandfather.

Your god, besides being weak, ineffectual and unbiblical---will never wipe out sin. He supposedly makes men into God's of their own planets, who have to save that world from sin---your God perpetuates sin forever---ours does away with it altogether. Why would you want to worship a god that keeps sin going forever?---that is just plain evil.

 

[He is the way]

You keep parroting this, when you very well know that this is not true! You do not believe that keeping God's 10 commandments are what this is all about---salvation---exaltation specifically---demands way more than the 10. The LDS have much more than must be done---much more. And again---you do not worship the God of the bible and therefore you are constantly braking the commandment to have no other God's, not to mention---again---you have never kept the 4th commandment as written by God. You keep the 4th as man has rewritten it.
You do not walk as Jesus walked---He had no grandfather.

Your god, besides being weak, ineffectual and unbiblical---will never wipe out sin. He supposedly makes men into God's of their own planets, who have to save that world from sin---your God perpetuates sin forever---ours does away with it altogether. Why would you want to worship a god that keeps sin going forever?---that is just plain evil.

Those who believe in the Bible should believe the verses of scripture that are therein. Commandments is listed 168 times in the KJV Bible. It is for sure that God wants us to keep the commandments. I can't understand why people believe that it is not necessary to keep the commandments. Why do people think God gave us the commandments? Yes we do keep the 4th commandment by worshiping God every day and doing good every day.

 

[mmksparbud]

Those who believe in the Bible should believe the verses of scripture that are therein. Commandments is listed 168 times in the KJV Bible. It is for sure that God wants us to keep the commandments. I can't understand why people believe that it is not necessary to keep the commandments. Why do people think God gave us the commandments? Yes we do keep the 4th commandment by worshiping God every day and doing good every day.

I never said we shouldn't keep them. I just believe if you say you are to keep them, that means all the 10---you only keep 8 of them for you worship another God and you do not keep the 4th as written by|God. And you also require many, many more than the 10 in order to attain exaltation. Which the bible never mentions. I object to your 1/2 truths. You do not speak all the truth.

 

[He is the way]

I never said we shouldn't keep them. I just believe if you say you are to keep them, that means all the 10---you only keep 8 of them for you worship another God and you do not keep the 4th as written by|God. And you also require many, many more than the 10 in order to attain exaltation. Which the bible never mentions. I object to your 1/2 truths. You do not speak all the truth.

There are more than 10 commandments and they include these:

(New Testament | Mark 12:28 - 34)

28 ¶ And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

These commandments of LOVE are the two greatest of all of the commandments. We also see the changed commandments in the sermon on the mount.

 

[mmksparbud]

Those who believe in the Bible should believe the verses of scripture that are therein. Commandments is listed 168 times in the KJV Bible. It is for sure that God wants us to keep the commandments. I can't understand why people believe that it is not necessary to keep the commandments. Why do people think God gave us the commandments? Yes we do keep the 4th commandment by worshiping God every day and doing good every day.

You do not keep the 4th every day---the 4th says you are not to do your usual work---you don't work at all? You don't take care of the house, the car, the yard? It's called lazy, and you would starve to death and have no home.

 

[mmksparbud]

There are mote than 10 commandments and they include these:

(New Testament | Mark 12:28 - 34)

28 ¶ And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

These commandments of LOVE are the two greatest of all of the commandments. We also see the changed commandments in the sermon on the mount.

There is no change---Jesus is quoting Duet. And this does not say there are only 2--
Deu_6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Everything hinges on these 2--the 1st 4, our duty to God, the last 6 our duty to man.

And you do not address the requirements for exaltation. Which Jesus never mentioned and Jesus was never married and therefore can not be exalted.

 

[Ironhold]

How can one become god, if he have sins? This is not possible, God don't have sins. Also angel can't become if he have sins, they don't have sins, too. They are sinless and pure, like God.

You believe in repentance, right?

That people should be working to be better day by day?

 

[He is the way]

You do not keep the 4th every day---the 4th says you are not to do your usual work---you don't work at all? You don't take care of the house, the car, the yard? It's called lazy, and you would starve to death and have no home.

(New Testament | Luke 14:3 - 6)

3 And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?
4 And they held their peace. And he took him, and healed him, and let him go;
5 And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?
6 And they could not answer him again to these things.

(New Testament | Mark 2:23 - 28)

23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?
26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

(New Testament | Mark 3:2 - 6)

2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.
4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.
6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.

So did Jesus also sin?

 

[mmksparbud]

(New Testament | Luke 14:3 - 6)

3 And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?
4 And they held their peace. And he took him, and healed him, and let him go;
5 And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?
6 And they could not answer him again to these things.

(New Testament | Mark 2:23 - 28)

23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?
26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

(New Testament | Mark 3:2 - 6)

2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.
4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.
6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.

So did Jesus also sin?

We've been over this countless times---you know very well we are to do good on the Sabbath day. Jesus was not doing work for which was being paid for. You post a chapter to say nothing.

 

[He is the way]

We've been over this countless times---you know very well we are to do good on the Sabbath day. Jesus was not doing work for which was being paid for. You post a chapter to say nothing.

So does that mean that all doctors and nurses are sinners? That would also include everyone in the armed forces and many other professions.

 

[mmksparbud]

So does that mean that all doctors and nurses are sinners? That would also include everyone in the armed forces and many other professions.

As usual, guess you didn't read what was posted. Besides---there are SDA hospitals just about every major city all over the world. We've had this conversation before also. I was a dialysis tech for 20 years. Worked things out so that I worked every Sunday and off every Saturday. All elderly, babies, the sick, animals and so forth must be taken care off. You know that. You're just skirting the issue---always do.

 

[Rescued One]

Christians are exalted but never to be equal to God as Mormon scriptures teach. And now Mormons have deleted one of their teachings:

Mormonism:
"What blessings await those who live worthy of exaltation? (Godhood, having all things subject to them, having angels subject to them, having all power, living with Jesus.) Point out that just as Jesus Christ was promised all that the Father has, we can also receive all power and dominion, becoming creators of other spirits and other worlds."
Young Women Manual 2, 1993, Lesson 29: Exaltation, p. 110

"In this way both the Father and the Son, as also all exalted beings, are now or in due course will become Gods of Gods."
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 342-376

"Mortal persons who overcome all things and gain an ultimate exaltation will live eternally in the family unit and have spirit children, thus becoming Eternal Fathers and Mothers."
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.517

"We educate ourselves in the secular field and in the spiritual field so that we may one day create worlds, people and govern them."
The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball [1982], p. 386

“The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fullness of his kingdom. In other words, we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him we must have all the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring.”
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation Vol. 2, p.48, (also quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual, 197

 

[He is the way]

As usual, guess you didn't read what was posted. Besides---there are SDA hospitals just about every major city all over the world. We've had this conversation before also. I was a dialysis tech for 20 years. Worked things out so that I worked every Sunday and off every Saturday. All elderly, babies, the sick, animals and so forth must be taken care off. You know that. You're just skirting the issue---always do.

Yes there are many members of the SDA that do work on Saturdays and get paid to do so:

"I was curious, I am a Seventh-Day Adventist and am struggling with the concept of working on Sabbath when your job, whether it be being a cop, firefighter, or someone else who is saving a life. The Bible is not always black and white and even though the Ten Commandments DO say to rest on the seventh day from all your labors, there are other instances in the Bible where helping others during time of rest are the right thing to do. What about those Nicu babies??? What about those who need constant care??? I would like input from a spiritual standpoint on how you all respect your Sabbaths and do it as a nurse."

From: Seventh Day Adventist and working on Sabbath???