LDS Mormon Doctrine Says You Can be Both Saved and Lost

Every person qualifies for the wages of sin, even Mormons.

Jesus came to give the GIFT of eternal life to many lost souls in every nation.

Phoebe Ann said:

Every person qualifies for the wages of sin, even Mormons.

Jesus came to give the GIFT of eternal life to many lost souls in every nation.

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Yes everyone will be judged by their works:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

The person whose name is already in the Book of Life has already been judged.

John 3
...18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 5
…23 so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. 24 Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life. 25 Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.…

There are people who do not want to LOVE their neighbor as themselves and there are people who do not want to LOVE God with all of their might and strength. Will the lukewarm be saved or lost?

(New Testament | Revelation 3:15 - 21)

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Dale said:

So there are three heavens, three levels of heaven. It looks like only those who go to the Celestial Heaven are in the Book of Life.

<< The book of life is the book containing the names of those who shall inherit
eternal life; it is the book of eternal life. (Dan. 12:1-4; Heb. 12:23; D. & C. 76:68; 132:19.) It is "the book of the names of the sanctified, even them of the celestial world." >>
McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, under Book of Life, p. 69-70

Elsewhere, McConkie distinguishes between those who have immortality and those who have eternal life. That backs up the point that only those destined for the Celestial Heaven are recorded in the Book of Life.

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Mormonism:
Eternal life is godhood, not becoming an angel. There are three levels within the Celestial Kingdom and only those in the highest level are gods(and goddesses) who dwell with Heavenly Father and Jesus.

Phoebe Ann said:

Eternal life is godhood, not becoming an angel. There are three levels within the Celestial Kingdom and only those in the highest level are gods(and goddesses) who dwell with Heavenly Father and Jesus.

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Eternal life is the keeping of the commandments:

(New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 28)

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Phoebe Ann said:

If eternal life were not a gift, everyone would forever be lost. That is why God gives us the gift of eternal.

God isn't stupid. If He saves someone He makes sure they will be conformed to the image of Christ. That is an undeserved blessing. It is not a forced punishment. We don't start "accessing the Vine." We are grafted in by God. He gives us to the Savior. Mormons think they can access the Vine.


Jesus is the Vine, the true Vine; He is sometimes referred to as an olive tree.

.........................Paul brought the good news to the Gentiles, who in turn became Abraham’s spiritual seed by faith and heirs of the promises to Abraham and his seed (Galatians 3—4). This is what Paul meant in Romans 11 by the Gentiles being “grafted” into the “olive tree” and nourished by the “root” (the promises to Abraham). The tree thus signifies the collective people of God; the “wild branches” grafted in are Gentile believers; the “natural branches” that are cut off are the Jews in unbelief. Jewish believers remain in the tree but are joined with Gentiles and “made” into a “new body,” the Church (Ephesians 2:11–22).

Paul anticipated a question that would surely arise among his Gentile readers: “I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall?” (Romans 11:1)—Gentile believers would be tempted to dismiss Israel because it appeared they would never recover. Even today, there are those who advocate supersessionism or replacement theology, which holds that the Church has completely replaced Israel and will inherit the promises to be fulfilled only in a spiritual sense. In other words, according to this view, ethnic Israel is forever excluded from the promises—the Jews will not literally inherit the Promised Land. What then would happen to Israel? What about the Old Testament prophecies that Israel as a nation would repent and be re-gathered to the land in the last days as a permanent possession (Deuteronomy 30:1–10)?

Romans 11 thus conclusively shows Gentile believers that God is not yet “done” with Israel, who has only temporarily lost the privilege of representing God as His people. Since “the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable” (11:29), “all Israel will be saved” in order to fulfill God’s covenant with ethnic Israel (11:25–28), including the promise of land inheritance (Deuteronomy 30:1–10).

While the “natural branches” were cut off because Israel failed, God’s purposes are not complete until Israel is also grafted back into the people of God to share in the promises to Abraham and his seed. This brings full circle God’s larger redemptive plan (Romans 11:30–36) for both Jews and Gentiles as distinct populations within the people of God in the Davidic (or Millennial) Kingdom.
What does it mean that the church has been grafted in Israel’s place? | GotQuestions.org


The reason Mormons teach that people must access Jesus or the Vine or the atonement is because of Joseph Smith's distorted teaching:

Doctrine and Covenants 130

20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.
Doctrine and Covenants 130

God, Law of (according to Joseph Smith):

• punishment of the law at the great and last day, 2 Ne. 2:26.
• he has given a law; and where there is no law given, 2 Ne. 9:25.
• wo unto him that has the law given, 2 Ne. 9:27.
• law which was temporal, D&C 29:34.
• by the prayer of your faith ye shall receive my law, D&C 41:3.
• hearken and hear and obey the law which I shall give, D&C 42:2.
• blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law, D&C 130:21.
• have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law, D&C 132:5.
• except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory, D&C 132:21.
• enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved, D&C 132:32.

God, Law of

Each person must agree that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and obey the laws that he claimed came from God.

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You said all of that beautifully, but the fact of the scripture stays exactly the same. If you (your branch) which is now in Jesus does not produce fruit, you will be cut off from Jesus's tree or vine. Simple. That is all that John 15:1-3 is telling you.

IOW you can lose your salvation if you do not produce fruit.

Peter1000 said:

You said all of that beautifully, but the fact of the scripture stays exactly the same. If you (your branch) which is now in Jesus does not produce fruit, you will be cut off from Jesus's tree or vine. Simple. That is all that John 15:1-3 is telling you.

IOW you can lose your salvation if you do not produce fruit.

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The branches that are cut off weren't saved. The genuine believer is attached to the true Vine. A branch that bears no fruit only appears to be attached but the lack if fruit reveals the hypocrisy. And the believers are pruned to produce more fruit.

John 15
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Philippians 1
3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, 4 Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, 5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; 6 Being confident of
this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: 7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. 8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. 9And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ; 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Colossians 1
9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; 12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Christians are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.

The true followers of Jesus Christ are those who LOVE Him enough to obey and keep His commandments.

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:9)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 11:26 - 28)

26 ¶ Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:
28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God,.........

Exaltation to godhood is eternal life to Mormons. Resurrection is universal and is often referred to as salvation. However, some resurrected beings are sent to outer darkness. Those who become gods and godesses will be members of the Church of the Firstborn --- the only ones worthy of being in Heavenly Farher's presence.


Doctrine and Covenants 132
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged,
bu remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

Book of Mormon, Alma 45
16 And he said: Thus saith the Lord God—Cursed shall be the land, yea, this land, unto every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, unto destruction, which do wickedly, when they are fully ripe; and as I have said so shall it be; for this is the cursing and the blessing of God upon the land, for the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

Doctrine and Covenants 1
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;

(New Testament | Matthew 5:16 - 22)

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Are Mormons or Jews more righteous than Christians? Are Gentiles more righteous than Jews?


Romans 3:10
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Romans 10
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Our heart's desire and prayer for unbelievers (Jew or Gentile) should be that they might be saved.

Romans 5
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.