More chatter on prophets.

[Entertaining_Angels]

I posted about my mom and her (and her church's) false prophesies, which are always quickly forgotten about (by them at least).

Several posters spoke of judging each prophesy seperately as its own entity. I almost got the impression that prophets can make mistakes in their prophesies (i.e. too close to the subject) and that is okay. They're forgiven and we should continue to trust them.

However, I noticed at the top of the page under the wof forum 'Dad' Hagin's (and Kenneth Copeland's really) prophesies for '94, '95 and '96 (well a small portion of them anyways) which got me thinking about false prophesies. These particular prophesies are consuming some of my family members right now.

Everything I read in the Bible about false prophesies and the prophets who give the prophesies is pretty harsh.

"But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."
21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him."

So, why such a liberal attitude about prophets and their 'mistakes'? Does anybody else, like me, think that if somebody prophesies something 'divinely' given to them and it does not come true that they are not really in touch with God.

This is something that really bothers me. Possibly because my family is on overdrive right with me sharing the 'gorier' portions of the 1995/1996 prophesies (hoping to scare me back perhaps???). Personally, I hope the Lord comes back but whether it is next year or fifty years from now I'll be ready.

 

[Rosieace]

Thank you for the information about the prophecies in WOF. I didnt know they were there. I know what you mean about being consumed by the prophecies. I have been WOF since i got saved in 1983. I have gotten totally consumed by the prophecies for 20 years now. I myself have dreams that give me the feeling that time is much shorter than we could ever imagine. And that the destruction in Indonesia is just a taste of what is about to happen to us here. I havent read these prophecies yet on WOF , but i will when i can. But i feel we need to lean on Jesus, not on the prophecies. Then He will let us know whatever it is we need to know. God Bless You and may you have a wonderful new year. I pray that Gods people will be protected from harm this year, and mightily blessed so that we can be a blessing to those around us. Rosieace

 

[Shalia]

Well, I've wondered that myself. Never really gotten a satisfactory answer on here, I usually get attacked. I think you're brave to ask, and I hope someone answers you.

 

[New_Wineskin]

So, why such a liberal attitude about prophets and their 'mistakes'? Does anybody else, like me, think that if somebody prophesies something 'divinely' given to them and it does not come true that they are not really in touch with God.

This is something that really bothers me. Possibly because my family is on overdrive right with me sharing the 'gorier' portions of the 1995/1996 prophesies (hoping to scare me back perhaps???). Personally, I hope the Lord comes back but whether it is next year or fifty years from now I'll be ready.

I am not sure if this would help but I will throw it up , anyway .

The person prophesying is only responsible for what the Lord leads them to communicate . That's it - job over - unless the Lord gives them further direction . Could the person add or subtract things ? Sure . But , that is between the Lord and them and anyone that the Lord gives something for *that* person .

Now , the person(s) to whom the prophesy is given ... well , they are only responsible for what the Lord gives them as well . If they don't hear anything while the "prophesy" is being spoken , they are responsible for nothing . There is also a chance that the Lord won't bring it up until sometime ( even years ) later .

In essence , for the people prophesying ... don't get hung up on the words . Just present what you have and let it be between them and the Lord . If He wanted the *words* to be perfect , He could always use a donkey .

For the people being given the prophesy ... don't get hung up on the person prophesying . Just listen to the Lord . What the Lord is telling you is important and not necessarily the words being presented .

Before I began writing , I was going to say that I didn't know if I was liberal to prophesy . But , now , I guess that people would consider it liberal .

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

I believe in prophesy. I've had some very personal things communicated to me and they were God through and through.

I, too, feel this is buried in Christian circles but the Bible says we are to investigate rumors of false prophesy. I've known too many who were touched by false prophesies and gave up on God entirely. It is only by the grace of God that I didn't run.

Some of the prophesies I've been told in the past were very too the point. There was no missing their meaning and when they did not come to pass, one of several things happened. One, the prophesy was conveniently forgotten. Two, the 'prophet' said they misunderstood the prophesy and it was actually something totally different that had come to pass instead or three, I misunderstood. From what I've seen fortune tellers have a fairly similar track record and I don't trust them either. And, Shalia, I know when I have confronted the folks giving false prophesies after they do not come to pass I always do it kindly with no accusations but, often, offense is taken and it can get nasty quickly.

I think what is happening is dangerous and is actually leading many astray. I am incredibly saddened by this.

 

[Trench777]

Interesting thing about prophesy...

What is prophesied doesn't always come to pass.

I'm talking real, "from God's mouth to our ears" prophesy.

I'm not refering to Hagin, Copeland or any other modern day prophet, but rather the examples we have from Scripture.

Jonah 3:4...40 days & Ninevah will be overthrown.

Hmmm...40 days came & went & Ninevah was still standing. Was Jonah wrong? No, he spoke exactly what God told him to speak (after just a -little- persuasion). We know God wasn't wrong.

Nevertheless, the "prophesy" of '40 days & goodbye Ninevah' did NOT come to pass.

False prophesy?

2 Kings 20:1 Isaiah tells Hezekiah "Thus says the Lord; set your house in order, for you shall die and not live".

We read the next 10 verses or so and find out thet Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and cried out to God. God heard his cry and sent Isaiah back with a...what? A revised prophesy? A new prophesy? Fresh leading? All I know for sure is, God told Isaiah to tell Hezekiah that 15 years would be added to his life.

Interesting, no?

2 prophets, 2 prophesies. WE have the advantage of seeing "behind the scenes"...we know that Ninevah repented and we know that Hezekiah repented. We further know that those prophesies (the original ones) DID NOT come to pass. They were undeniably the Word of God spoken through man...yet...they did not come to pass

Consider this. Suppose we did not have the "behind the scenes" knowledge of what those prophesied against did after they recieved thier prophesy? We would assume (rightly? wrongly?) that the prophets who delivered the prophesies were..........false prophets.

How could we come to any other conclusion, using human logic & reasoning? They (Jonah & Isaiah) claimed to have God's Word on something...but the things they said turned out to not to happen.

I'm not really argueing for or against modern day prophets &/or thier prophesies, I'm just trying to give ya a little something to think about, if you haven't looked at it this way.

God bless you & yours,

T777

 

[psalms 91]

prophecy and any other blessing from god must be used as the spirit gives but not in our flesh. that is serious. god has used me in prophecy before and it scares me. sometimes the gifts i have been given i dont really want. to many want to preach or be a prophet but forget the terrible responsibility and accounting we are held to.

 

[lismore]

Well, I've wondered that myself. Never really gotten a satisfactory answer on here, I usually get attacked. I think you're brave to ask, and I hope someone answers you.

Hi Friend

Sometimes God has hidden purposes in prophecies that are not known, for example in the passage below where he gives the prophets false prophecies in order for disaster to come on the army of Israel. The thing here is called ' a lying spirit in the mouths of the prophets' sent by God to 'deceive and overpower', perhaps a similar thing happens today.

I experienced something similar to this and it did make the false prophets look ridiculous. They prophecied that a certain man would be instrumental in bringing the massive revival to Scotland that was coming in 1992. Well the poor man died that same week and its 2005 and no revival and these false prophets were expelled from the body.

Hope this helps


1 Kings 22:5 Then Jehoshaphat added,5 "First seek an oracle from the Lord."6 22:6 So the king of Israel assembled about four hundred prophets and asked them, "Should I attack Ramoth Gilead or not?"7 They said, "Attack! The sovereign one8 will hand it over to the king." 22:7 But Jehoshaphat asked, "Is there not a prophet of the Lord still here, that we may ask him?" 22:8 The king of Israel answered Jehoshaphat, "There is still one man through whom we can seek the Lord's will.9 But I despise10 him because he does not prophesy prosperity for me, but disaster. His name is Micaiah son of Imlah.11 Jehoshaphat said, "The king should not say such things." 22:9 The king of Israel summoned an official and said, "Quickly bring Micaiah son of Imlah."
22:10 Now the king of Israel and King Jehoshaphat of Judah were sitting on their respective thrones,12 dressed in their robes, at the threshing floor at the entrance of the gate of Samaria.13 All the prophets were prophesying before them. 22:11 Zedekiah son of Kenaanah made iron horns and said, "This is what the Lord says, 'With these you will gore Syria until they are destroyed.'" 22:12 All the prophets were prophesying the same, saying, "Attack Ramoth Gilead! You will succeed; the Lord will hand it over to the king." 22:13 Now the messenger who went to summon Micaiah said to him, "Look, the prophets are in complete agreement that the king will succeed.14 Your words must agree with theirs; you must predict success."15 22:14 But Micaiah said, "As certainly as the Lord lives, I will say what the Lord tells me to say."

22:15 When he came before the king, the king asked him, "Micaiah, should we attack Ramoth Gilead or not?" He answered him, "Attack! You will succeed; the Lord will hand it over to the king."16 22:16 The king said to him, "How many times must I make you solemnly promise in17 the name of the Lord to tell me only the truth

22:17 Micaiah18 said, "I saw all Israel scattered on the mountains like sheep that have no shepherd. Then the Lord said, 'They have no master. They should go home in peace.'" 22:18 The king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, "Didn't I tell you he does not prophesy prosperity for me, but disaster?" 22:19 Micaiah19 said, "That being the case, hear the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, with all the heavenly assembly standing on his right and on his left. 22:20 The Lord said, 'Who will deceive Ahab, so he will attack Ramoth Gilead and die20 there?' One said this and another that. 22:21 Then a spirit21 stepped forward and stood before the Lord. He said, 'I will deceive him.' The Lord asked him, 'How?' 22:22 He replied, 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets.' The Lord22 said, 'Deceive and overpower him.23 Go out and do as you have proposed.' 22:23 So now, look, the Lord has placed a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours; but the Lord has decreed disaster for you."

 

[psalms 91]

the key to prophecy for us personally is to accept it and then put it on the shelf until god confirms his word with signs following. to often people are in the flesh or use prophecy to manipulate. does this mean that there is no prophecy, no, it means we must be wise. there are tests for prophets and if you researchn it in the bible you will find them.

 

[praisegirl2]

My church is a prophetic church. Our pastor give seminars all over the country on the gift of prophecy.
I believe in prophecy and I agree with what Bill said in his post.

 

[enoch son]

The key word that is missing is "building up" (editfy) 1 cor. 14. The question must be ask is something always build-up with one brick or does it take many? Or to say one word or many? We know in part don't we? Where the chruch has made it's mistake in this area ( I'm preaching to myself here) the prophets have not spoken out in jugdement of a false word. So that correction can take place.

 

[lismore]

Everything I read in the Bible about false prophesies and the prophets who give the prophesies is pretty harsh.

"But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."
21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him."

So, why such a liberal attitude about prophets and their 'mistakes'? Does anybody else, like me, think that if somebody prophesies something 'divinely' given to them and it does not come true that they are not really in touch with God.

.

Hi there

I have been mystified myself by someone standing up in a meeting and giving a hodge-podge of their own pet projects and saying 'hear ye the word of the Lord', especially when another prophet gets up afterwards and gives a contrary prophecy from the Lord. I have heard genuine prophecy from the Lord and also the phoney kind of flesh speaking. But in the Old Testament it was possible for some like Samuel to hear from God instantly and act upon it.................such people also did not give false prophecy. Jeremiah and Isaiah didnt give false prophecies? Of course not Therefore I would say I agree with you. God does not make errors therefore anyone who gives a prophecy from the Lord and it is riddled with errors is not hearing from God and should be stopped from airing the contents of their own minds any further.



Hebrews 1:1 After God spoke long ago1 in various portions2 and in various ways3 to our ancestors4 through the prophets, 1:2 in these last days he has spoken to us in a son,5 whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he created the world.6

 

[sweetrevival]

Interesting thing about prophesy...

What is prophesied doesn't always come to pass.

I'm talking real, "from God's mouth to our ears" prophesy.

I'm not refering to Hagin, Copeland or any other modern day prophet, but rather the examples we have from Scripture.

Jonah 3:4...40 days & Ninevah will be overthrown.

Hmmm...40 days came & went & Ninevah was still standing. Was Jonah wrong? No, he spoke exactly what God told him to speak (after just a -little- persuasion). We know God wasn't wrong.

Nevertheless, the "prophesy" of '40 days & goodbye Ninevah' did NOT come to pass.

False prophesy?

2 Kings 20:1 Isaiah tells Hezekiah "Thus says the Lord; set your house in order, for you shall die and not live".

We read the next 10 verses or so and find out thet Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and cried out to God. God heard his cry and sent Isaiah back with a...what? A revised prophesy? A new prophesy? Fresh leading? All I know for sure is, God told Isaiah to tell Hezekiah that 15 years would be added to his life.

Interesting, no?

2 prophets, 2 prophesies. WE have the advantage of seeing "behind the scenes"...we know that Ninevah repented and we know that Hezekiah repented. We further know that those prophesies (the original ones) DID NOT come to pass. They were undeniably the Word of God spoken through man...yet...they did not come to pass

Consider this. Suppose we did not have the "behind the scenes" knowledge of what those prophesied against did after they recieved thier prophesy? We would assume (rightly? wrongly?) that the prophets who delivered the prophesies were..........false prophets.

How could we come to any other conclusion, using human logic & reasoning? They (Jonah & Isaiah) claimed to have God's Word on something...but the things they said turned out to not to happen.

I'm not really argueing for or against modern day prophets &/or thier prophesies, I'm just trying to give ya a little something to think about, if you haven't looked at it this way.

God bless you & yours,

T777

True, true, true - we must trust God that He will deal with these people if they are wrong, we must trust God that when we listen He will protect us if the message is wrong, and we must trust God that the message will get to where it is meant to go, rather than try to put our human barriers up and stop it. Prophesy is God speaking to us through each other, and if the prophesy is alike to some situation in the bible then God may have confirmed its truth to us before it actually happens on earth!

 

[sweetrevival]

Some years ago I was led to do a study on prophets and prophesy after our pastor allowed a prophet to give a word from God then told the congregation to judge it and stone the prophet if it wasn't true!

Deuteronomy 13:1 - 5 (states that a prophet or dreamer who brings signs and wonders but who tries to lead God's people away from Him and turn them toward other gods should be put to death)
13:6 - 11 (states that a brother, son, daughter, wife or friend who tries to entice you into following other gods should be stoned to death by you.)
13: 12 - 18 (states that if fellows in your midst try to entice the inhabitants of the city into serving other gods, and you search carefully and find that this is true you should destroy the city utterly.)

This chapter does not state that you should listen to a prophet, decide he is wrong and stone him to death. A false prophet is clearly one who leads the people away from the true and living god. Nor does it state that a prophet should be stoned but a son, daughter, brother, wife and friend!

It also clearly states that "you" should stone the brother, etc and "you " should destroy the city, but that the prophet should die (no person mentioned - so presumably this is God's province)

Deuteronomy 18:18 - 22
This section clearly states that a prophet who speaks words that God has not given him or who speaks for other gods will die. And as a word that God has not spoken is a word that does not come to pass, this is the test for a prophet who has spoken wrongly.

Jeremiah 23:9-40
This whole section deals with false prophets - all of whom clearly are profane, wicked, prophesy by Baal, cause the people to err, strengthen the hands of the devil, etc.

Verses dealing with false prophets -
Matthew 24:11
Matthew 24:24
Matthew 7:15-20
1 Timothy 4:12
2 Peter 2:1 - 3

Testing a prophesy from the bible
1 Thessalonians 5:20 - 21 Do not despise prophesies. Test all things, hold fast to what is good.
1 John 4:1 - 6 deals with the Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Error
2 Peter 1:16 - 21 deals with the trustworthy prophetic word


Hope this helps

By the way our pastor wasn't interested in this study. His original warning stood even though 90% of the congregation took hold of the prophetic Word from the prophet and are still standing on it over 5 years later!

 

[ChristianMuse]

Sometimes I wonder about people who give prophecy. Why do I wonder? The Spirit of God has not witnessed in my heart whether the word is true or not. For me then, those prophecies are null. When the Spirit witnesses yes, then I know it is from Him, amen. When the Spirit witnesses that the word is false, then I know that it is not from the Lord. Mostly I get silence and do not know whether it is a true word or a false word. At those times I look to people who I know from experience are discerning enough to give me some direction.

I do find it surprising how many people cannot tell the difference between: the carnal response, the intellectual response, the emotional response, a false spirit, from a spiritual witness from the Lord. Then again, it is seldom a person can find good teaching on the subject.

What is worse? Many do not believe it is for today. And with some of the track records of these prophets can anyone really blame them?

 

[heartofheaven]

Prophets in the old testament were not very well liked.........poor micaiah!Like it or not, we are seeing alot of this "false prophesying" going on right under our noses......"listen to some I've heard for teens! "
God is going to make you a model for GQ"~"God is going to make you fat,by the Holy Ghost",or how about this~" God is going to build three Churches in your town this year" These are weird, how about a so -called prophet who plays a guitar,stops then points to someone in the congregation,"God has a word for you" then jams on the guaitar again,like a 'rock-star"! How about this one~ a prophet who throws a baby from the healing line up in the air,and is supposingly "healed" in mid-air?Would you question any of this yourself? I did, ,and bubye.I think we,the Church had better judge what prophets,prophecy is for.Are we listening to the 'anti-christ' who comes with signs,and wonders, tells you this and that, and we listen to this ****?? are we wondering why then the world is saying we are nuts?? Please watch ,and seek for yourselves, for this kind of stuff can damage people for life. I know. Bonnie

 

[sweetrevival]

Prophets in the old testament were not very well liked.........poor micaiah!Like it or not, we are seeing alot of this "false prophesying" going on right under our noses......"listen to some I've heard for teens! "
God is going to make you a model for GQ"~"God is going to make you fat,by the Holy Ghost",or how about this~" God is going to build three Churches in your town this year" These are weird, how about a so -called prophet who plays a guitar,stops then points to someone in the congregation,"God has a word for you" then jams on the guaitar again,like a 'rock-star"! How about this one~ a prophet who throws a baby from the healing line up in the air,and is supposingly "healed" in mid-air?Would you question any of this yourself? I did, ,and bubye.I think we,the Church had better judge what prophets,prophecy is for.Are we listening to the 'anti-christ' who comes with signs,and wonders, tells you this and that, and we listen to this ****?? are we wondering why then the world is saying we are nuts?? Please watch ,and seek for yourselves, for this kind of stuff can damage people for life. I know. Bonnie

Your comments are very sound and the real key is that we should all pray for God to protect us from any unsound influence, and unwise teachings, anything that is wrong, wrong, wrong. And that includes laying on of hands - always protect yourself with a blood barrier so that anything in the person will not pass to you.

However, re the nutty things that some people do, God had His prophets travelling in the belly of whales, lying on their sides for days and days only to swap sides, running around naked, walking around towns blowing trumpets! I would hazard a guess that people then thought they were mad too.

Our church had an occasion where the Holy Spirit wanted to fall on the church - I believe in revival.. He was so close you could smell Him, and all He wanted us to do was reach up - physically with our hands - and grab Him and pull Him down. Some did, but most did'nt including our pastor, so the Holy Spirit left and the feeling was so awful, and the pastor blamed the prophet. We would have looked real nutty to outsiders, but oh how wonderful was the promise we were reaching for.

I have to say I would be concerned about the posing rock star and the baby thrower though.

 

[9-iron]

This is something that really bothers me.

**Grain of Salt Alert.

Okay, take this for what it is worth and it relates to your situation or helps you in any way great, if not, take with a grain of salt and move on.


There was a lady who constantly prophosied over my wife and me to some extent, but she didn't force her way upon me like she did my wife. Anyway every circumstance, decision, problem, trial or anything else we went through, this lady always had so-called 'spiritual input'. Like the Lord told about everything revolving around our lives.

I didn't feel right, but were very young and young spiritually as well. To say this person was manipulative and controlling with her 'I feel the Lord is telling me....' stuff would be a gross understatement. Of course she was good at her trade and we fell for it.

Until one day I made something up and told her about it. She immediately responded what she 'felt the Lord was trying to tell me' through this. Hmmm. I knew then it was time to hit the door and run.

Here is the kicker. This woman was geniune. That's right, she honestly felt like she was helping others. She truly felt like she was doing God's work and there was no doubt this woman had insightful things to share. I find no fault in her sincerity. However, she was sincerely WRONG!!

I could explain deeper, but it take another page or two. I think most have either been in or know of a similiar situation.

My point is this. Do you feel like your mom honestly feels like she is doing what she feels is the right thing to do? I am sure in her mind, which the mind is a powerful thing, she is truly speaking to you the things she feels God is wanting for you life.

The problem, she isn't you! Only you can hear from God concerning what is best for you life. Of course God can use others to direct our path, or use others to confirm what is already speaking to us. However, I would caution anyone who is trying to led by another person through 'personal prophecies'.

As I have said, this lady sincerely thought she was hearing from the Lord concerning us. And like I also said, the mind is a powerful thing. Could it be perhaps that your mom's desires for what she wants in your life are so strong, that in her mind she is hearing from the Lord?


Again, take this post with a grain of salt. I am just sharing a time in our life where a person constantly spoke to us what she felt she was hearing from the Lord.

It is all about illegal relationships from an emotional and spiritual point. Of course I don't have time to get into that.

Anyway, there ya go.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

9-Iron you hit the nail on the head. My mother is that lady. I have never doubted her sincerity. She truly believes she has heard from the Lord about very specific events. Yet, when the event does not transpire the way she told it or at all, she will say she misunderstood and it was actually <<insert an event that already happened here>>.

So, whatever happened with this woman? She seriously sounds just like my mother and I even had a similar instance where a doctor told me something and I repeated it to her. She told me that that is what the Lord told her. Well, the doctor ended up being wrong and my mother never mentioned it again.

I have had the urge to hit the door and run. We have a very troubling situation right now in our extended family and my mother shared another 'word' from one of her pastors. Of course, her pastors are right (or should I say wrong) as often as she is. I had to fight the urge to hang up on her but I was very polite and kept my mouth shut.

Thank you so much for posting this. I really needed to read your post right now.

 

[Ann Doupont]

False prophecies and false teachings can both lead people astray. I have heard both. Teachers are judged with a stricter judgment, the Bible says.

I did not hear the words given by WOF ministers in the 90s. But, I did hear what Bro. Hagin prophesied for 2004, 2005 and 2006. From what I see so far, these seem to be accurate.

Ann