More Catholic Questions/Concerns

[Chris†opher Paul]

Ok, I am researching the whole Protestant deal and I have some questions. Is it true that the Catholic Church teaches:

1. Salvation comes only through the Roman Catholic Church.

2. The Pope is infallible.

3. Roman Catholic Priests are infallible.

4. The Sacraments are necessary for salvation.

5. Only the Catholic Church can correctly interpret Scripture.

6. The Virgin Mary saves.

Any rebuttals would be helpful, as I am trying to understand everything before making any big steps.

 

[VOW]

Hoo, boy, you don't want much, do you, Bud?

I'll give it a shot!

1. Salvation comes only through the Roman Catholic Church.

Salvation comes through faith by grace. Christians, all Christians, belong to the Body of Christ, with Jesus as the Head. The Catholic Church teaches that IT is the Body of Christ, but understands that All Christians belong to it, although some are not in full communion with the Catholic Church.

2. The Pope is infallible.

Only under a set of very extreme circumstances, when defining morals and/or faith. He can't "make up new stuff" or contradict existing Dogma or Deposit. Don't wait for Pope John Paul II to wake up tomorrow morning and issue an official pronouncement against the Trinity. And don't bet on any horses he predicts will win the Irish Sweepstakes.

3. Roman Catholic Priests are infallible.

No.

4. The Sacraments are necessary for salvation.

Not quite. Salvation is by faith through grace. The Sacraments INCREASE your grace. They grease the wheels that roll along the path to eternity, if you wish. Life is hard, and Christianity is a struggle. Jesus promised He would help us, and some of the helpers are the Sacraments.

5. Only the Catholic Church can correctly interpret Scripture.

The Church is the guardian of the Original Deposit of Faith, left by the Apostles. And the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. So yeah, the Church is your source of information when it comes to figuring out what the Scriptures mean, since the Church has been there from the VERY beginning.

6. The Virgin Mary saves.

Nope. Salvation is by faith through grace, and it is from the belief in the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ. However, the Catholic Church teaches that without Mary, we wouldn't HAVE Jesus. Without her unselfish cooperation with the plan of Salvation, there wouldn't be Salvation. She is the PERFECT example of how we should act as Christians.

Hope this helps!


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Oh, I want it all.

Anyway, I don't understand this terminology?

"Salvation is by faith through grace"

 

[VOW]

To Souljah:

Salvation is through the acknowledgement and acceptance of the perfect Sacrifice that Jesus offered in our place, in payment of our sins. Salvation is the FAITH in believing that sacrifice. We truly believe that Jesus is the Son of God, Savior of all mankind, and that we can enjoy eternity in Heaven (instead of eternal punishment and damnation) because Jesus paid the price for our sins. That's the FAITH part.

The GRACE is what God grants to us, to open our eyes and SEE, FEEL, and BELIEVE in this gift of Jesus.

The GRACE is what separates you from the intellectual understanding to the SPIRITUAL appreciation (and for me, anyway, the utter AWE!) of what Jesus did for us.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Well, the one I have a big problem with is the Pope being infallible. I understand that it is limited, but to me, there is only one man infallible, and the rest of us are sinners.

 

[_Orion]

I think he's infallible through the guidance of the holy spirit. He's not infallible just because he got elected.

The holy spirit protects him from making errors.

edit to say: errors with regards to faith and morals.

 

[_Orion]

The pope also is a sinner. Make no mistake. He goes to confession regularly.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by OB
I think he's infallible through the guidance of the holy spirit. He's not infallible just because he got elected.

The holy spirit protects him from making errors.

edit to say: errors with regards to faith and morals.

Interesting distinction, thanks. He is voted in by men, correct? There is politics involved, correct? How do we know that the Holy Spirit guides him? Or even intended him to be there? Seems made up to me.

 

[VOW]

To Souljah:

<--what OB said. He's got it.

When it comes to defining faith and morals, we believe in the promise that Jesus made when he named Peter as the Rock, and said, "Upon this Rock I will build My Church, and the gates of the netherworld will not prevail against it." We trust the Holy Spirit to guide the Church, and to guide the Pope to lead the Church.

And in 2000 years, we haven't been let down yet. There have been some HORRENDOUS Popes, Souljah, make no doubt about that. But even the worst of the worst did NOT damage the OFFICE or the POWER of the Pope that he has to be infallible. Suffice to say, the baddies were placeholders in the line of Apostolic Succession, and not too much more than that.

It's interesting to note, that there was one pope who managed to weasel into office based on certain bribes and threats and finagling, who was being promoted by royalty, with the "understanding" (wink-wink) that major changes would come about in the Church teaching. The guy was bad news.

Funny thing, though, after he parked his bootie in the Chair of Peter, he did a 180° about-face, and REINFORCED the "status quo" of the Church, much to the anger, frustration, and dismay of the royal who had insured his appointment.

How about that Holy Spirit, huh?


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by VOW
To Souljah:

<--what OB said. He's got it.

When it comes to defining faith and morals, we believe in the promise that Jesus made when he named Peter as the Rock, and said, "Upon this Rock I will build My Church, and the gates of the netherworld will not prevail against it." We trust the Holy Spirit to guide the Church, and to guide the Pope to lead the Church.

And in 2000 years, we haven't been let down yet. There have been some HORRENDOUS Popes, Souljah, make no doubt about that. But even the worst of the worst did NOT damage the OFFICE or the POWER of the Pope that he has to be infallible. Suffice to say, the baddies were placeholders in the line of Apostolic Succession, and not too much more than that.

It's interesting to note, that there was one pope who managed to weasel into office based on certain bribes and threats and finagling, who was being promoted by royalty, with the "understanding" (wink-wink) that major changes would come about in the Church teaching. The guy was bad news.

Funny thing, though, after he parked his bootie in the Chair of Peter, he did a 180° about-face, and REINFORCED the "status quo" of the Church, much to the anger, frustration, and dismay of the royal who had insured his appointment.

How about that Holy Spirit, huh?


Peace be with you,
~VOW

Nice.

What about the horrible ones? How is that explained?

 

[_Orion]

The church is run by sinners...Nobody would argue that.

I think Holy Spirit guides the pope...no matter who get's elected.

I'm having a real problem posting messages longer than this...I'm a newbie, will have to figure this out.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by OB
The church is run by sinners...Nobody would argue that.

I think Holy Spirit guides the pope...no matter who get's elected.

I'm having a real problem posting messages longer than this...I'm a newbie, will have to figure this out.

Again I say, "What about the horrible ones? How is that explained?"

 

[VOW]

To Souljah:

Because, as you have mentioned before, they ARE men. Look at the horrible PRIESTS lately!

What I do is go back to the Bible. Jesus renamed Peter, made him the head of the Church. What does good ole Peter do? DENIES CHRIST three times before the Crucifixion. Did Jesus "fire" Peter? Nope. In fact, Jesus made a point of instructing Peter, after the Resurrection, to "tend His sheep."

Thomas is my favorite screw-up. We ALL have a bit of Thomas inside of us. Did Jesus throw him out of the house, saying, "Look, Pal, everyone else believed."

All of us are humans, we screw up. And Jesus had ONLY humans to choose from when He established His Church. To me, the failings of Peter make him more REAL. And it shows me that in spite of our failings, Jesus was still willing to bestow His trust, and His faith upon the Church.

And I have faith the Holy Spirit will NOT let any of the "screwups" err in leading the Church.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[_Orion]

They were horrible, but did nothing to corrupt the teaching of the church.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by OB
They were horrible, but did nothing to corrupt the teaching of the church.

What made them horrible?

 

[_Orion]

Human Nature?

What did they do that was horrible? or what MADE them horrible? They were sinners. And some did horrible things. A history of the popes would show you that.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by OB
Human Nature?

What did they do that was horrible? or what MADE them horrible? They were sinners. And some did horrible things. A history of the popes would show you that.

No, what did they do that was horrible? I have this list of Popes:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

But its a long list. Which ones should I read about?

 

[VOW]

To Soujah:

You might have to wait for Wolseley to give you a list of the bad guys. But there were some popes who did just about all of the Seven Deadly Sins, sometimes simultaneously. They lied, cheated, stole, fornicated, you name it. You ever hear of the notorious Borjia family? Lucretia Borjia, who got rid of her enemies by poisoning them? She was a SISTER of a pope. And she came by her charms GENETICALLY, LOL.

Let's try to snag Wolseley on his next jaunt through the board.


Peace,
~VOW

 

[_Orion]

For example, Benedict IX was pope on three different occasions. 146 & 148 & 151 ...

Go Figure...Do a google search and you'll see...some popes had children, concubines...

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

And none of these bad dudes effected the teaching of the Church? The Holy Spirit didn't let them?