more about me

[Brieuse]

Gee you taking what I say out of context...what a surprise. I guess it shows your hermanutic in general and with scripture.

And there is liberal presbyterians in all Churches. That's if your telling the truth that you are one. By the way I have never used symbolic logic in this website.

crumbs!

Yes, I grew up in St Andrew's Presbyterian Church in Benoni, then moved later with my parents to St Thomas' Presbyterian Church, also in Benoni. Benoni is a large town in the East Rand of Gauteng which is a province in South Africa. I was confirmed as a Presbyterian as a young man. When I was twenty, I moved on my own to a church in Kempton Park called Maranatha Community Church, which is an IFCC affiliated church which has Baptist roots. Kempton Park is also a large town in the East Rand. During my formative years as a Christian, I also involved myself in the Methodist Church, the Baptist Church and once even a Catholic Church.

As a youth, myself and another friend started a youth group up for my church. This youth group eventually lead to the church becoming a cell-based church, if you know what that is. My friend ended up doing missionary work in old Russia.

As a youth I would spend my weekends strolling through the centre of town. It was still safe to do so in those days. I would spread the gospel to anybody that was willing. I still to this day remember a guy that had basically given up. He accepted the gift of Jesus Christ, and last I heard was a pastor for the Salvation Army.

As a young man, I involved myself in ministry and remember a few times driving abused little girls to places of safety. I have prayed over the sick and they have been healed. I have prayed for problems in people's lives, and those problems went away.

While studying, I joined the Christian group at college. During our lunch hour we would witness to the other students.

As a young man, I was baptised in water, even though my parents had baptised me as a baby. That was a most wonderful experience.

To this day, until recently, I never missed a Sunday of Church, nor a day of Bible Study/Cell group. Unfortunately I am in the process of looking for a new church to go to as I have moved out of Kempton Park.

So I ask of you, please stop insinuating we are not "Real" Christians, you are way off base.

 

[Time4AChange]

Everything you've done is great, and i commend you for that Brieuse....Christ said that the harvest is plentiful but the laborers are few, and if all what you're saying is true (which i do believe it is), then quite frankly, you've done ALOT for building up the Kingdom, probably more than most Christians. However, according to Christ...no amount of good works or servitude can make you a "real" Christian, and it seems like you're trying to prove that you're a real Christian by what you've done. What makes you a real Christian (as i'm sure you know) is accepting Christ. What does accepting Christ entail?....Having faith in Him and doing what He says. According to the word, homosexuals don't do what Christ said.

Christ said in Matthew 19:4-6....Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Homosexuals blatantly disobey those verses to be quite honest. Christ clearly said what a union is in regards to marriage, yet homosexuals try to argue that Christ did not speak against homosexuality. Well, according to Matthew 19:4-6....He ABSOLUTELY did.

I've seen it said on this forum, that conservatives don't think for themselves...that we just believe what the Bible says without using logic and reasoning...not true, but that's okay. Lets use some logic and reasoning then....if Christ said what marriage (or a union of two ppl) should be, isn't He also saying what it should NOT be? and therefore excluding anything contrary to what He said? That's like Christ saying "Make a right when you get to the stop sign" and homosexuals say "I'm going to make a left, because Christ did not say the words DON'T MAKE A LEFT". No He did not say those specific words, but He is telling us to go a specific way, and homosexuality is the opposite of the way He told us to go. Homosexuality is the "left" when He told us to go "right"....and that is disobedience. If both "left" and "right" options were able to get us to heaven, then Christ would have said that we can go in either direction. There's a reason why He mentioned only ONE way. Like i've said before, I believe that everything that Christ said, He said it for a reason....because He knew that we would need clear instructions on how to do what He's commanded us to. He's not out to mislead us or deceive us in anyway.

This whole "option filled" way of Christianity is very anti-scriptural and very anti-Christ in teaching. The road to Christ doesn't have to many "left" and "right" turns. Contrary to what ppl teach now, there aren't many options on how to be one with Christ. It's a straight narrow path as Christ taught in Matthew 7:13-14, and until we get back to staying on that straight and narrow....Christianity as a whole will continue to be as divided as it is in this forum. Just the division alone should be a dead giveaway that something is wrong, but it's like we just can't see that. The division and confusion is exactly what the devil wants. Lord help us.

 

[ReformedChapin]

crumbs!

Yes, I grew up in St Andrew's Presbyterian Church in Benoni, then moved later with my parents to St Thomas' Presbyterian Church, also in Benoni. Benoni is a large town in the East Rand of Gauteng which is a province in South Africa. I was confirmed as a Presbyterian as a young man. When I was twenty, I moved on my own to a church in Kempton Park called Maranatha Community Church, which is an IFCC affiliated church which has Baptist roots. Kempton Park is also a large town in the East Rand. During my formative years as a Christian, I also involved myself in the Methodist Church, the Baptist Church and once even a Catholic Church.

As a youth, myself and another friend started a youth group up for my church. This youth group eventually lead to the church becoming a cell-based church, if you know what that is. My friend ended up doing missionary work in old Russia.

As a youth I would spend my weekends strolling through the centre of town. It was still safe to do so in those days. I would spread the gospel to anybody that was willing. I still to this day remember a guy that had basically given up. He accepted the gift of Jesus Christ, and last I heard was a pastor for the Salvation Army.

As a young man, I involved myself in ministry and remember a few times driving abused little girls to places of safety. I have prayed over the sick and they have been healed. I have prayed for problems in people's lives, and those problems went away.

While studying, I joined the Christian group at college. During our lunch hour we would witness to the other students.

As a young man, I was baptised in water, even though my parents had baptised me as a baby. That was a most wonderful experience.

To this day, until recently, I never missed a Sunday of Church, nor a day of Bible Study/Cell group. Unfortunately I am in the process of looking for a new church to go to as I have moved out of Kempton Park.

So I ask of you, please stop insinuating we are not "Real" Christians, you are way off base.

Gee that proves nothing. And I haven't said you aren't real Christians. I'm not allowed to by the rules. But I'm glad you recognize your position.

BTW being in a church doesn't mean you adhere to their doctrines. It's nice that you try to boast about how good you are.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Everything you've done is great, and i commend you for that Brieuse....Christ said that the harvest is plentiful but the laborers are few, and if all what you're saying is true (which i do believe it is), then quite frankly, you've done ALOT for building up the Kingdom, probably more than most Christians. However, according to Christ...no amount of good works or servitude can make you a "real" Christian, and it seems like you're trying to prove that you're a real Christian by what you've done. What makes you a real Christian (as i'm sure you know) is accepting Christ. What does accepting Christ entail?....Having faith in Him and doing what He says. According to the word, homosexuals don't do what Christ said.

Christ said in Matthew 19:4-6....Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Homosexuals blatantly disobey those verses to be quite honest. Christ clearly said what a union is in regards to marriage, yet homosexuals try to argue that Christ did not speak against homosexuality. Well, according to Matthew 19:4-6....He ABSOLUTELY did.

I've seen it said on this forum, that conservatives don't think for themselves...that we just believe what the Bible says without using logic and reasoning...not true, but that's okay. Lets use some logic and reasoning then....if Christ said what marriage (or a union of two ppl) should be, isn't He also saying what it should NOT be? and therefore excluding anything contrary to what He said? That's like Christ saying "Make a right when you get to the stop sign" and homosexuals say "I'm going to make a left, because Christ did not say the words DON'T MAKE A LEFT". No He did not say those specific words, but He is telling us to go a specific way, and homosexuality is the opposite of the way He told us to go. Homosexuality is the "left" when He told us to go "right"....and that is disobedience. If both "left" and "right" options were able to get us to heaven, then Christ would have said that we can go in either direction. There's a reason why He mentioned only ONE way. Like i've said before, I believe that everything that Christ said, He said it for a reason....because He knew that we would need clear instructions on how to do what He's commanded us to. He's not out to mislead us or deceive us in anyway.

This whole "option filled" way of Christianity is very anti-scriptural and very anti-Christ in teaching. The road to Christ doesn't have to many "left" and "right" turns. Contrary to what ppl teach now, there aren't many options on how to be one with Christ. It's a straight narrow path as Christ taught in Matthew 7:13-14, and until we get back to staying on that straight and narrow....Christianity as a whole will continue to be as divided as it is in this forum. Just the division alone should be a dead giveaway that something is wrong, but it's like we just can't see that. The division and confusion is exactly what the devil wants. Lord help us.

Liberal Christian position is self-defeating." I'm a Christian but the bible is wrong" That makes absolutely no sense."The bible doesn't speak of homosexuality but it's wrong anways." Then why bother quoting it? If it's wrong I wouldn't even bother wasting my time looking at it. They just manipulate scripture to attempt to coerse real christians even if it what it says doesn't matter to them. " Your works don't matter (again quoting scripture and regarding homosexuality) but let me boast about how much I am involved in Church." Then why bother talking about it? They have nothing Christian in them when they contradict the foundamentals of Christian theology, they just have the title. The vast majority of them are open theist or not theist at all.

 

[fuzzymel]

The bible speaks far more about heterosexuals than homosexuals so who really is the bigger sinner?

 

[Brieuse]

Liberal Christian position is self-defeating." I'm a Christian but the bible is wrong" That makes absolutely no sense."The bible doesn't speak of homosexuality but it's wrong anways." Then why bother quoting it? If it's wrong I wouldn't even bother wasting my time looking at it. They just manipulate scripture to attempt to coerse real christians even if it what it says doesn't matter to them. " Your works don't matter (again quoting scripture and regarding homosexuality) but let me boast about how much I am involved in Church." Then why bother talking about it? They have nothing Christian in them when they contradict the foundamentals of Christian theology, they just have the title. The vast majority of them are open theist or not theist at all.

wow.

not quite sure how to react to this outburst.

 

[ReformedChapin]

The bible speaks far more about heterosexuals than homosexuals so who really is the bigger sinner?

This exactly what I mean^

 

[ReformedChapin]

wow.

not quite sure how to react to this outburst.

React to the truth by repenting.

 

[mdaniel]

It's nice that you try to boast about how good you are.

Honestly, do you think that statement is thinking the best of him or using your words to encourage others (1 Cor 4 and Eph 4:29) ??

His post was to address an accusation that has been leveled in a number of posts that those who believe that homosexuality isn't a sin are not Christians at all, but essentially activists / propagandists who are here to cause trouble.

At least that is how I've interpreted a few comments in this forum, although in fairness I've only been on here for a week or two.

I think it's very important for people to realize that two people can read the bible with an open mind and heart and come to different conclusions on some issues (which should be obvious as there are hundreds of denominations).

 

[ReformedChapin]

Honestly, do you think that statement is thinking the best of him or using your words to encourage others (1 Cor 4 and Eph 4:29) ??

That's nice that you taking a single point of the bible out of context. But if you are intentionally attacking the Christian system I will point out what you are doing.I don't care what you call yourself. Jesus constantly refuted hypocrites.

Mat 17:17Jesus answered, 1 “You 2 unbelieving 3 and perverse generation! How much longer 4 must I be with you? How much longer must I endure 5 you? 6 Bring him here to me.”
Mar 9:19He answered them, 1 “You 2 unbelieving 3 generation! How much longer 4 must I be with you? How much longer must I endure 5 you? 6 Bring him to me.”
Luk 9:41Jesus answered, 1 “You 2 unbelieving 3 and perverse generation! How much

His post was to address an accusation that has been leveled in a number of posts that those who believe that homosexuality isn't a sin are not Christians at all, but essentially activists / propagandists who are here to cause trouble.

At least that is how I've interpreted a few comments in this forum, although in fairness I've only been on here for a week or two.

No it wasn't. His post was to boast about how he was a Christian because everything he does.

I think it's very important for people to realize that two people can read the bible with an open mind and heart and come to different conclusions on some issues (which should be obvious as there are hundreds of denominations).

Again if we take the pluralist apporach then we can come to all sorts of crazy conclusions about the bible. We must properly interpret scripture with the right hermanutic. We must try to read the bible correctly and not put our (homosexual) agendas into it.

 

[Brieuse]

React to the truth by repenting.

I do.

Wasn't bragging, but it seems you decided to attack me in that manner anyway. My love for Jesus Christ motivated me to do those things, with no expectation on my side for any reward. When I go to heaven one day, I'll tell God myself I don't want a reward, because all the things I do, I do for God. Isn't that what being a Christian is all about?

 

[Brieuse]

Right now, in this point of time, it's me time. But soon as I sort myself out, I'm going to go back out there onto the streets. Go ahead, tell me I am wasting my time, that Christians are not saved by good works etc etc, you think I do it for myself?

 

[UberLutheran]

This exactly what I mean^

Please elaborate on "this is exactly what I mean."

 

[mdaniel]

... all the things I do, I do for God. Isn't that what being a Christian is all about?

Absolutely. Christianity is about a personal relationship with Christ and helping others find Christ.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

It's all fine and dandy, but in the end it doesn't matter. There are non-Christians who are good, even BETTER people but they won't be saved. This is for EVERYONE. Let me tell you, at this rate, we're all setting ourselves up for hell. Why? Because we're spending so much time ACCUSING each other and being angry, bitter and vile, that we're not out trying to SAVE others. This is what I tried to say before but people are so concentrated on making themselves look good that they put others done. When this is happening between Christians, then something needs to be done.

Frankly, I am more persecuted among fellow Christians than I am among non-Christians. Because non-Christians tend to be far more open minded and willing to accept that faith is different for some people. They won't necessarily change but they won't try to change me or change my faith in God. I see more Christians who try to make sure I'm the most prim and proper example and that I'm perfect and good down to the tee, even if it means giving up any faith I have. Because who needs faith anyway, huh?

I've thought this for a while, that a Chrisitian Forum doesn't need a Philosophy forum. Save that for the college students and the professionals because on the Internet it's just a hate fest. It would be better for me and for everyone else.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

That's nice that you taking a single point of the bible out of context. But if you are intentionally attacking the Christian system I will point out what you are doing.I don't care what you call yourself. Jesus constantly refuted hypocrites.

Mat 17:17Jesus answered, 1 “You 2 unbelieving 3 and perverse generation! How much longer 4 must I be with you? How much longer must I endure 5 you? 6 Bring him here to me.”
Mar 9:19He answered them, 1 “You 2 unbelieving 3 generation! How much longer 4 must I be with you? How much longer must I endure 5 you? 6 Bring him to me.”
Luk 9:41Jesus answered, 1 “You 2 unbelieving 3 and perverse generation! How much


No it wasn't. His post was to boast about how he was a Christian because everything he does.

Again if we take the pluralist apporach then we can come to all sorts of crazy conclusions about the bible. We must properly interpret scripture with the right hermanutic. We must try to read the bible correctly and not put our (homosexual) agendas into it.

I did not interpet his post as boasting. It was clear he was trying to show a hostile and angry minority of fundamentalist that he also seeks God in his heart and tries to back his belief with actions. Faith without works is dead. I think some here should examine their hearts and try to determine why their is so much hate and hostility spewed in the name of God.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I did not interpet his post as boasting. It was clear he was trying to show a hostile and angry minority of fundamentalist that he also seeks God in his heart and tries to back his belief with actions. Faith without works is dead. I think some here should examine their hearts and try to determine why their is so much hate and hostility spewed in the name of God.

I don't see any hate, that's just how liberals whine when real christians refuse to accept their fake Christianity.

And you're right faith without works is a dead faith, that means you have to predispose that the bible is inerrant.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I don't see any hate, that's just how liberals whine when real christians refuse to accept their fake Christianity.

And you're right faith without works is a dead faith, that means you have to predispose that the bible is inerrant.

Sometimes people don't see or realize what they are mired in.

Why is everyone that disagrees with your Minority Calvinist view deemed liberal? If your such a staunch Uber Conservative, why don't you walk the walk and volunteer and serve your country over in Iraq or Afghanistan? They could use the manpower.

 

[BAFRIEND]

The bible speaks far more about heterosexuals than homosexuals so who really is the bigger sinner?

The Bible speaks more about Jews than anyone else and they are God's beloved chosen people. So, of course God would address heterosexuals...

 

[ReformedChapin]

Sometimes people don't see or realize what they are mired in.

Why is everyone that disagrees with your Minority Calvinist view deemed liberal? If your such a staunch Uber Conservative, why don't you walk the walk and volunteer and serve your country over in Iraq or Afghanistan? They could use the manpower.

Calvinism has nothing to do with this debate. There is people from every denomination who oppose the SIN of homosexuality.