Morals

DeepThinker · Jun 5, 2006

As a Christian I generally try to keep the 6 commandments that Jesus gave us. Plus a few of my own. Many who are not Christian will do this unrealising because they were brought up in a Christian background.
What, if anything, do you base your morals on?

This is not a question I'm trying to catch you out with, just curious.

elman · Jun 5, 2006

DeepThinker said:
As a Christian I generally try to keep the 6 commandments that Jesus gave us. Plus a few of my own. Many who are not Christian will do this unrealising because they were brought up in a Christian background.
What, if anything, do you base your morals on?

This is not a question I'm trying to catch you out with, just curious.

I am only aware of two commands, love God and love man and since we love God by loving man, they really are only one command.

DeepThinker · Jun 5, 2006

elman said:
I am only aware of two commands, love God and love man and since we love God by loving man, they really are only one command.

Thought he said these were the most important, mabey I should not have fraised it as the ones he "Gave" us as the ones he said we should live by,
17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18"Which ones?" the man inquired.
Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,'[d] and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'[e]"

fromdownunder · Jun 5, 2006

Deep Thinker

Unfortunately, this subject would take far more time than I am willing to give it if we were to tease out all the issues (after all, the question of morality has never been resolved - that's why there are BBs and entire library shelves and web pages devoted to this very question )

But just a points to ponder, and I will respond specifically if you wish to discuss this point further.

Mores go back to the very beginnings of H. Sapien. We are a pretty weak animal and would not survive without community. Thus the earliest tribes developed rules which ensured the survival of the tribe.

These rules were codified over thousands of years by Tribal Shamans, perhaps attached to a deity, and ensured survival. Eventually writing came along and they were written down. But they do change over time.

Every tribe on the planet had/has survival rules which we call "morality". It is not limited to Mosaic laws (which in most cases are no longer used) or Jesus' sayings.

Before the spread of Christianity there were millions of people who had never heard of Jesus. Amerindians, South American Indians, Australian Aboriginals, Chinese, Japanese, Indians, Eskimos, Polynesians etc. etc.

Every one of these tribes had a form of morality which did not depend on Jesus, Buddha (well, not always from my list), Muhammed, or Roman rule for that matter. So, without a written code (and at least four of those I mentioned had no writing before Europe invaded), or knowledge of a common divine entit, they still had "morals".

So, long winded answer above, short answer below:

I got my morality from a combination of hard wiring ("moral" people, i.e. people who were more likely to have a tribal instinct) survived and living in a society based on our particular version of "moral" laws, to which I was attuned to.

Whether this came from Jesus, Buddha, Muhammed, or any other religious or secular teaching does not alter the fact of what we accept as morality. And, don't forget, different tribes do have different forms of morality.

Norm

David Gould · Jun 5, 2006

My morals are primarily based on my biology and my culture. However, they are also based upon my own investigations and thoughts and experiences.

I do not think that morality exists as something out there. All I think we have are behaviours of animals - behaviours that we support and behaviours that we oppose. And everyone's opinion on which should be supported and which should be opposed, and the priorities, will be at least slightly different.

With no belief in free will, I have come to accept that there is no such thing as responsibility - there is no point blaming someone for what they do, anymore than there is a point blaming a volcano for killing someone.

So my morality, while likely based in Christianity - I was a Christian for a fair while, and live in a Christian culture - is probably a little different than many other people's.

Eudaimonist · Jun 6, 2006

DeepThinker said:
What, if anything, do you base your morals on?

Thanks for the question.

I base my morals on a philosophical consideration of the requirements of human life, in particular as it relates to what is required to rationally attend to both physical and psychological needs.

I take a virtue ethics (eudaimonistic) approach to morality, and so I tend to think in terms of moral principles or excellences that may be called virtues, which are to be instilled (habitualized) in one's overall moral character, and which are applied to situations through practical reasoning skills. Rationality is the root virtue that is expressed in all other virtues.

There are various rational virtues that I strive to live by, including honesty, integrity, authenticity, independence, productiveness, justice, kindness, and friendliness.

eudaimonia,

Mark

DeepThinker · Jun 6, 2006

fromdownunder said:
Whether this came from Jesus, Buddha, Muhammed, or any other religious or secular teaching does not alter the fact of what we accept as morality. And, don't forget, different tribes do have different forms of morality.

Norm

I did nto forget, I never said all or even most Morals were based on Christian belifes. I mearly asked what guilds you morally, was that wrong? did i upset you somehow? Or do you just have an innate hatred for anything a Christian says?

Mistadobalina · Jun 6, 2006

Carl Panzram. Just kidding.

Or AM I?

My morals come from my own observations of humans, coupled with the "hard wiring" that fromdownunder mentioned.

vajradhara · Jun 6, 2006

Namaste deepthinker,

thank you for the post.

DeepThinker said:
What, if anything, do you base your morals on?

a deep understanding of Interdependent Co-Arising, Karma and Karuna.

metta,

~v

Eudaimonist · Jun 6, 2006

vajradhara said:
a deep understanding of Interdependent Co-Arising, Karma and Karuna.

What is Karuna? Thanks.

eudaimonia,

Mark

Parkspapercut · Jun 6, 2006

My morals come from my life experiance and my upbringing by my parents, from which they are so deeply inbuilt now they would be hard to change.
I take quite an atheist view when it comes to morals, agreeing that they depend on your surrounding and can change with society, I think this was said by Weber?

fromdownunder · Jun 6, 2006

DeepThinker said:
I did nto forget, I never said all or even most Morals were based on Christian belifes. I mearly asked what guilds you morally, was that wrong? did i upset you somehow? Or do you just have an innate hatred for anything a Christian says?

Deep Thinker, I am trying to understand which button of yours I pushed to make you react this way. Was it simply going further than your OP, and discussing morality in a wider context than you asked?

Was it the term "and don't forget" which, to me at least is just a figure of speech?

Do I hate Christians? not at all, and you will not find one post of mine here that even infers it.

Two of my children (and you may remember my responses on another thread to an atheist (Mortenson) regarding my kids) are born again fundamentalist YECs, and we get along extremely well. My brothers and sister remain in the CofE (two of them are lay preachers, and one of these is a Freemason as well), and we get along very well.

I think the Mortenson thread is about only the second thread I have ever responded to on the Philosophy board, so I really need to know where you got the "hatred for anything Christian" from.

I was heavily involved in the CofE for many years as a Church organist and a Sunday School teacher, and simply drifted away, and eventually did enough reading to have sufficient doubts about the existence of God. but I am not angry about it at all. Nor am I ever angry at Christians per se.

I expressed my views on morality as a subject, that's all.

Norm

DeepThinker · Jun 6, 2006

fromdownunder said:
Deep Thinker, I am trying to understand which button of yours I pushed to make you react this way. Was it simply going further than your OP, and discussing morality in a wider context than you asked?

Was it the term "and don't forget" which, to me at least is just a figure of speech?

Do I hate Christians? not at all, and you will not find one post of mine here that even infers it.

Two of my children (and you may remember my responses on another thread to an atheist (Mortenson) regarding my kids) are born again fundamentalist YECs, and we get along extremely well. My brothers and sister remain in the CofE (two of them are lay preachers, and one of these is a Freemason as well), and we get along very well.

I think the Mortenson thread is about only the second thread I have ever responded to on the Philosophy board, so I really need to know where you got the "hatred for anything Christian" from.

I was heavily involved in the CofE for many years as a Church organist and a Sunday School teacher, and simply drifted away, and eventually did enough reading to have sufficient doubts about the existence of God. but I am not angry about it at all. Nor am I ever angry at Christians per se.

I expressed my views on morality as a subject, that's all.

Norm

kk ill revoke my agression towards you and appologise, I do not wish to make an enemy in you, perhaps I was a little worked up at the time and read things into your post that were not there, again sorry.

fromdownunder · Jun 6, 2006

DeepThinker said:
kk ill revoke my agression towards you and appologise, I do not wish to make an enemy in you, perhaps I was a little worked up at the time and read things into your post that were not there, again sorry.

Fair enough. Let's forget about it and start again.

Regards

Norm

vajradhara · Jun 7, 2006

Namaste mark,

thank you for the post.

Eudaimonist said:
What is Karuna? Thanks.

eudaimonia,

Mark

sorry for the use of the jargon.. i'm going through a bit of a phase right now

essentially, the term means "compassion for beings whom are suffering" which, in the Buddhist context, would mean all sentient beings.

the understanding of how to generate compassion for all sentient beings and to acutally put it into practice is an essential part of the Buddhist paradigm and in the Mahayana schools, is consdiered indespensible for the rising of Prajna to occur.

metta,

~v

elman · Jun 7, 2006

Parkspapercut said:
My morals come from my life experiance and my upbringing by my parents, from which they are so deeply inbuilt now they would be hard to change.
I take quite an atheist view when it comes to morals, agreeing that they depend on your surrounding and can change with society, I think this was said by Weber?

So according to your morals under certain circumstance it would be morally correct to torture a baby in order to hear the screams?

fromdownunder · Jun 7, 2006

elman said:
So according to your morals under certain circumstance it would be morally correct to torture a baby in order to hear the screams?

You mean like in Psalms 137:9:

"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones"

Or maybe you mean II Kings 2 23-4 instead ( although these were older children. You know, Elsiha and the bears?

"And he turned back, and looked on them; and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood and tare forty and two children of them."

I suppose you will find some way to make these stories morally acceptable.

Norm

Eudaimonist · Jun 8, 2006

vajradhara said:
i'm going through a bit of a phase right now

I can relate.

essentially, the term means "compassion for beings whom are suffering" which, in the Buddhist context, would mean all sentient beings.

Thanks, I'll try to remember the word.

the understanding of how to generate compassion for all sentient beings and to acutally put it into practice is an essential part of the Buddhist paradigm and in the Mahayana schools, is consdiered indespensible for the rising of Prajna to occur.

I see that you are still in your phase. I'm unclear on what "rising of Prajna" means. Would you please explain briefly?

eudaimonia,

Mark

Im_A · Jun 8, 2006

DeepThinker said:
As a Christian I generally try to keep the 6 commandments that Jesus gave us. Plus a few of my own. Many who are not Christian will do this unrealising because they were brought up in a Christian background.
What, if anything, do you base your morals on?

This is not a question I'm trying to catch you out with, just curious.

do unto others as i would do unto myself.

sure i could probably go on and on and explain why this is so important to me but i'll leave it here for now. it's pretty self-explanatory

vajradhara · Jun 8, 2006

Namaste Mark,

thank you for the post.

yes, i suppose that i am

Eudaimonist said:
I see that you are still in your phase. I'm unclear on what "rising of Prajna" means. Would you please explain briefly?

eudaimonia,

Mark

Prajna is Wisdom, in the Buddhist context. specifically, Wisdom that cognizes emptiness of phenomena and beings.

so, what we mean to be saying is that Compassion is the pre-requisit for Wisdom to arise in a being.

that's like the Cliff notes version we could discuss it more thoroughly in another sub-forum, if you would perfer.

metta,

~v

Morals

Active Member

elman

Active Member

Senior Member

Pearl Harbor sucked. WinAce didn't.

I believe in life before death!

Active Member

Active Member

Diamond Thunderbolt of Indestructable Wisdom

I believe in life before death!

Regular Member

Senior Member

Active Member

Senior Member

Diamond Thunderbolt of Indestructable Wisdom

elman

Senior Member

I believe in life before death!

Legend

Diamond Thunderbolt of Indestructable Wisdom

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency