Morality

[Left]

I'd argue that the best way to be good is to let all religion go and focus on ourselves.

People will say Christians have better morality than atheists. But just look at all the arguing in the Minecraft thread. Over a video game, and dare I say it, one that's not even that good in terms of gameplay quality.

 

[Strivax]

It's an interesting proposition, that Christians have a better morality than others. So, what is the yardstick by which this is to be assessed? A Christian yardstick? A humanist yardstick? Or an independent, say, a Buddhist yardstick? Fact is, before we can agree on who is most moral we need to agree on what is moral, and that is debatable. Very debatable, and very much debated. So much so, that I think it comprises the central debate humanity can participate in, 'the Great Debate', and that it is of central importance because it informs our very salvation prospects.

As for focusing on ourselves; well, it's a seductive idea; 'I can be good by looking after number one'; but I think the best way to be moral is to accept that humans are social animals, living amongst each other in various states and circumstances, and that the moral generally involves looking out for, and after, those least able to look out for, and after, themselves. If some idea is generally selfish, and promotes selfishness, we can be fairly sure it is not moral. And that if everyone were unselfish, and moral, then no one would lack.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[archer75]

I wouldn't say that Christians as a group have "better morality" than atheists.

Some atheists behave really well, some Christians behave amazingly poorly.

To me it seems sort of random.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I'd argue that the best way to be good is to let all religion go and focus on ourselves.

People will say Christians have better morality than atheists. But just look at all the arguing in the Minecraft thread. Over a video game, and dare I say it, one that's not even that good in terms of gameplay quality.

....just focusing on ourselves doesn't really lead to anything other than moral relativism. If we all do this, we have to cross our fingers and hope (...not hope to God, obviously--if we are keeping God out of it... ) that our neighbor is ... actually able to be 'nice,' with or without the promises and lip service that may go along with all of it.

 

[SPF]

I'd argue that the best way to be good is to let all religion go and focus on ourselves.

I would argue that the best way to be "good" is to focus on one's relationship with Christ and work towards becoming more like Him. One mistake that Christians make is focusing on trying to be good and "sin less". While we should all want to sin less, that shouldn't be our focus. Basically, sin management doesn't work. Our underlying motivations matter.

For the Christian, our underlying motivation should be to Trust that the promises that Christ has told us are true. The more we trust in Christ, the more we become like Him, the less we will sin.

 

[ananda]

I'd argue that the best way to be good is to let all religion go and focus on ourselves.

People will say Christians have better morality than atheists. But just look at all the arguing in the Minecraft thread. Over a video game, and dare I say it, one that's not even that good in terms of gameplay quality.

We all already focus on ourselves.

It's just some believe that Christianity fits them better. Others believe Buddhism fits better. Etc.

 

[Left]

Strivax wrote in a thread of mine which I can no longer post in: "I don't actually think this is entirely right. The atheist has a burden of proof to show that God does not exist. And what other causal hypothesis does he have for the existence of the universe, or the net result that is his own existence? None, I think."

Upon careful examination, he is right. But the best thing to do when each side can't prove something, is suspend judgement.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Strivax wrote in a thread of mine which I can no longer post in: "I don't actually think this is entirely right. The atheist has a burden of proof to show that God does not exist. And what other causal hypothesis does he have for the existence of the universe, or the net result that is his own existence? None, I think."

Upon careful examination, he is right. But the best thing to do when each side can't prove something, is suspend judgement.

Personally, I don't know that the best thing to do is suspend judgment; for me, that isn't the case and never has been. In my view, there can still be axiological considerations to look at in addition to epistemological and metaphysical ones which may cause one to gravitate toward religion, or to one specific religion, or to none, or whatever.

In my case, even if I can't 'PROVE' the existence of God, or the complete validity of ancient Jewish theology, I can still see JESUS CHRIST as the most Beautiful Option among many, and I say this a posteriori.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[quatona]

People will say Christians have better morality than atheists.

What makes a certain morality good?

 

[MrNoodle]

I'd argue that the best way to be good is to let all religion go and focus on ourselves. People will say Christians have better morality than atheists. But just look at all the arguing in the Minecraft thread. Over a video game, and dare I say it, one that's not even that good in terms of gameplay quality.

I have always thought that true science defeats the whole concept of religion. In science there is no good or evil, just observed facts. In concept only, true science could replace all religion. But obviously in human reality it can never happen, because we are always finding new ways to differentiate ourselves from others. So we are in effect stuck in the rut of persecution, which is a foundation of region. So until there's a better option, I suppose I will continue to walk with God.

 

[quatona]

I have always thought that true science defeats the whole concept of religion.

It doesn´t defeat it any more than, say, plumbing does. Religion is just not the field of science.

 

[Paradoxum]

Not considering your own wishes to be more important than that other others seems to work okay, for a basic start.

 

[-V-]

I'd argue that the best way to be good is to let all religion go and focus on ourselves.

Religion, simply, is beliefs about God. For anyone who is a theist, it is impossible to "let religion go" when pondering what is moral/immoral. Beliefs about God, what He wants, what He says, etc... directly determine what morality is for the theist.

To just "let religion go" requires an atheistic view. This is where your idea fails. In an atheistic view, the only consistent conclusion is that morality doesn't exist. There is no good or evil. If there is no good or evil, then actions can not be good or evil. If actions are neither good nor evil, they are neither moral nor immoral.

So, your view has no internal consistency. While you can choose to believe it is "good/moral", you can't actually demonstrate that it actually IS good/moral within its own rules.

 

[miknik5]

[
judges

And every man went to his own house and did what was "right" in his own eyes

 

[miknik5]

While HE is in the world HE convicts the world of sin

 

[miknik5]

When HE who holds all things back is taken out of the way (temporarily) then men will do as he pleases

 

[Left]

"This is where your idea fails. In an atheistic view, the only consistent conclusion is that morality doesn't exist."

Wrong. Atheists just don't have an ultimate authority on morality. They still believe it's good and not evil to help an old lady cross the street.

My question is, why do we need an ultimate authority on morality?

 

[miknik5]

"This is where your idea fails. In an atheistic view, the only consistent conclusion is that morality doesn't exist."

Wrong. Atheists just don't have an ultimate authority on morality. They still believe it's good and not evil to help an old lady cross the street.

My question is, why do we need an ultimate authority on morality?

Because some can't make a right judgement

And put evil for good
Bitter for sweet
Darkness for light

And try to pas this off as "truth" to those who are weak and ignorant who don't know their left from their right

Because...Well because they don't bring their works into the light
Because they don't acknowledge
THE LIGHT to begin with

 

[miknik5]

Here's what's going to happen when HE who holds all things back, lets go

Those things that normally and naturally held will no longer hold

And men, instead of repenting and acknowledging GOD as Sovereign, that it is by HIS GRACE that all things hold, will rather look left and right at trouble and woes and will in error blame/attribute/curse GOD for all the evil which will run rampant in that day and will, in the end, be cast into utter darkness and confusion and receive the wrong mark

And It won't be for LIFE

 

[miknik5]

take lessons from Job