Moral Christian Doctrine

[PointusPilate]

Apart from the doctrine of hell which ironically promises eternal torment to humans, what moral teaching in current circulation is uniquely original to Christianity or derives from Jesus?

And do, you on the whole, tend to lead your life in accordance with said moral precepts?

 

[Hammster]

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Thread moved to Exploring Christianity


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[2ndRateMind]

Apart from the doctrine of hell which ironically promises eternal torment to humans, what moral teaching in current circulation is uniquely original to Christianity or derives from Jesus?

And do, you on the whole, tend to lead your life in accordance with said moral precepts?

Hmmm. Seeing as this has been moved to the exploring Christianity thread, it might be pertinent to ask something I have never quite got to the bottom of. Do (conventional) Christians believe it is bad people that will be tormented, or non-Christians, or bad non-Christians? I assume 'good' Christians get to go to Heaven, although whether this is because they are good, or Christian, seems to be a hotly debated and debatable point.

Best wishes, 2ndRateMind.

 

[Van]

Hi PointusPilate, lets start with the doctrine of Hell. To be a Christian teaching rather than a tradition of men, the doctrine must be based on what the Bible actually says, and reasonable inferences consistent with what it says. So the Bible says Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet will suffer torment day and night forever, so they are punished with Eternal Torment in Hell (making the inference the Lake of Fire is in Gehenna.) However, humans are said to be tormented in the Lake of Fire, and the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. A reasonable inference here is that the consequence of being tossed into the Lake of Fire is eternal, but it is the consequence, the smoke, whose duration is eternal, not the torment. This view is consistent with all those verses that say the lost will be punished for their deeds, resulting in differing amounts of punishment (torment) followed by total destruction, body and soul. So the "eternal punishment" is the eternal separation from God, but the torment is limited to what would be just punishment for the sins of the lost individual.

Second, why search for "uniquely original" moral teachings? Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. But an interesting comparison of Christianity to "tribalism" does point up some rather unique positions. Tribalism teaches a we versus them world view. Christianity teaches all mankind is in the same boat. It would be "ok" to make a slave of the "them" but it would not be "ok" to make a slave of a potential brother in Christ.

And referring now to the question from 2ndRateMind, the Christian view is not that good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell, but rather "forgiven people" go to heaven, and the "unforgiven" go to Hell where they receive perfect justice for their sins. For example, say I am a really bad man - not too far of a stretch - and give my life to Christ on my death bed. So I might fit your definition of a "bad Christian" going to heaven, but on the other hand we could have a really good man - say a doctor that spends his whole life helping the sick and dying - who does not believe in Jesus, going to Hell and being punished for his misdeeds. He gets justice, whereas I got mercy.

 

[ebia]

Apart from the doctrine of hell which ironically promises eternal torment to humans, what moral teaching in current circulation is uniquely original to Christianity or derives from Jesus?

And do, you on the whole, tend to lead your life in accordance with said moral precepts?

Christianity is not, fundamentally a set of moral precepts or a philosophy. It's a statement that God is acting to put right everything that is wrong in the world, and that that action came to it's decisive climax in Jesus of Nazareth.

 

[ebia]

Hmmm. Seeing as this has been moved to the exploring Christianity thread, it might be pertinent to ask something I have never quite got to the bottom of. Do (conventional) Christians believe it is bad people that will be tormented, or non-Christians, or bad non-Christians? I assume 'good' Christians get to go to Heaven, although whether this is because they are good, or Christian, seems to be a hotly debated and debatable point.

Best wishes, 2ndRateMind.

Christians become part of God's convenant people who will be resurrected into the restored, redeemed creation at the final resurrection by hearing the gospel, receiving the holy spirit, joining the body of Christ in baptism, and being transformed.

 

[ephraimanesti]

Apart from the doctrine of hell which ironically promises eternal torment to humans, what moral teaching in current circulation is uniquely original to Christianity or derives from Jesus?

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you."(Luke 6:27)

And do, you on the whole, tend to lead your life in accordance with said moral precepts?

i stumble quite frequently but less frequently than at the beginning. GOD IS GOOD! and i am growing, slowly but surely, into that Goodness.

(WOW! Who would have thunk that? Me of all people!)

A BOND-SLAVE/FRIEND/BROTHER OF OUR LORD/GOD/SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[sinner/SAVED]

"hell" is not a Christian doctrine. It is not given a place in any of the major creedal statements. It is not one of the five fundamentals. It is only used in 13 verses in the Bible.

 

[MoodyBlue]

And referring now to the question from 2ndRateMind, the Christian view is not that good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell, but rather "forgiven people" go to heaven, and the "unforgiven" go to Hell where they receive perfect justice for their sins. For example, say I am a really bad man - not too far of a stretch - and give my life to Christ on my death bed. So I might fit your definition of a "bad Christian" going to heaven, but on the other hand we could have a really good man - say a doctor that spends his whole life helping the sick and dying - who does not believe in Jesus, going to Hell and being punished for his misdeeds. He gets justice, whereas I got mercy.

Sending to hell the "really good man..(who) spends his whole life helping the sick and dying" hardly seems like "justice" that befits the "crime" (not believing in Jesus). Perfect justice? Sorry, this concept is a major stumbling block for me.

 

[freeport]

Apart from the doctrine of hell which ironically promises eternal torment to humans, what moral teaching in current circulation is uniquely original to Christianity or derives from Jesus?

And do, you on the whole, tend to lead your life in accordance with said moral precepts?

Everything Jesus said strongly influenced the backbone of modern moral understanding.

The concepts of self-righteousness, hypocrisy, condemnation of being "right" by word of deed (self-righteousness), love of one's enemies, turning the other cheek, and so on are all distinctly Christian, though everything Christ said was and is in line with the Law and Prophets.

The concept of the wealthy being condemned, of the poor being praised, of those who laugh eventually mourning, and so on are Christian.

The concept of love as the ultimate virtue is distinctly Christian: love through sacrifice even to death for others. The concept of "saving the world" and striving to save others, to do good to the poor, the sick, the elderly are all strongly reinforced by Christ who went about healing the sick and raising the dead.

The condemnation of the 'wisdom' of 'the world' and the 'strength' of men is distinctly Christian.


If you live in a majority Christian nation you are living in a society indeliably influenced by the Judeo-Christian moral framework.


It can seem easy to dismiss that if one is in such a culture, because of the subjective nature of cultural influences. The best way to really see 'how it is' outside such influences is to go to countries where that is not the primary backdrop: China or Saudi Arabia, and so forth.



Above all, however, the very concept of striving under adversity in love to save others - which one sees constantly in modern fiction of all sorts - is distinctly Christian.


As for condemning Christ because of one's "understanding" of Hell, that is usually the product of misunderstanding, rather then understanding. This sort of misconception often comes in the Christian world from people being raised in condemnatory sects of Christianity...

In reality, of course, where the majority of people by large call themselves "Christian" it should be reminded that when you make such far reaching condemnations - if you do - you will invariably be condemning many innocent people.

 

[NaLuvena]

Hmmm. Seeing as this has been moved to the exploring Christianity thread, it might be pertinent to ask something I have never quite got to the bottom of. Do (conventional) Christians believe it is bad people that will be tormented, or non-Christians, or bad non-Christians? I assume 'good' Christians get to go to Heaven, although whether this is because they are good, or Christian, seems to be a hotly debated and debatable point.

Best wishes, 2ndRateMind.

It's got nothing to do with who's good and who's bad.

God invites everyone to heaven. However, only those who decide to go will get there. Jesus came to deliver the invitation.

 

[Van]

Hi Moodyblue, I am not sure why receiving justice in Hell is a stumbling block? The doctor would be punished for his misdeeds and then destroyed. Lets suppose the doctor had not done any misdeeds. His existence would be terminated and he would simply rest in peace, having experienced perfect justice. But of course, since all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, the "good" doctor would be punished for whatever misdeeds he actually committed, before his exsistence is terminated by having his body and soul destroyed.