Moon was Created

FishFace · Jan 12, 2008

dad said:
Let's look at that. If X, then equals a different state past, and you say it did not exist you are making a universal negative. OK. So, admit there was one! Or prove there was not!

Well done, you get top marks in "not getting the point." Universal negatives are unprovable! Why are you asking me to prove one? It's up to you to provide evidence for your claims, not up to me to provide evidence against them.

No, that is not reasonable evidence. That is only as reasonable as the assumption that the surface is the be all end all.

A reasonable assumption as long as there's no reason to believe otherwise. You've not given us such a reason.

It is tested, and has been. No secret there. You need to separate reality from fantasy.

You test every bit of air you breathe to see whether it's spiritual or physical? Of course not, you just assume that ALL the air is physical because SOME of it is! You're carrying your assumption TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!

Did God lock it, or you??

It's just locked. Answer the question.

No, admitting I have no science evidence that the interior of the eternal earth is PO is simple honesty.

There's plenty of evidence that the interior of the earth is physical. There's no evidence that it is anything else.

X is someone that grew a lew leg. You say X is false. Prove it, by your own standards here.

Uh, no - by "my" (and every other person who knows anything about epistemology) standards, 'Noone grew a new leg' is a universal negative. Unprovable.
You provide some evidence for it.

No, I don't doubt it, that would be you, and since you have no proof, doubt is all you have!

Still no good reason to believe the earth is spiritual inside?

No it isn't, because some things are well founded, and evidenced, and experienced, and tested, etc. Some are not. Learn the difference. Some thing are good to doubt, some bad. Just like some places are good to walk, some bad.

So how do you tell which are good to doubt and which are bad? Because there's just as much evidence for the earth being physical as there is for the air being physical, or the inside of a room being physical.

dad · Jan 12, 2008

FishFace said:
There you go again! Billions of years is not infinity - or beyond!

Well, to be more concise, they say that the universe could expand forever!!

If you think you've got proof of God, then out with it sonny. Stop beating around the bus

It is out, Try it yourself.

Irrelevant. In a locked room you know the interior is made of normal physical stuff. Same with the interior of the earth.

And why do we know, class? Right, because man was in there, Guess what, h was not in the center of the eart, no matter how you try to WAVE that away.

Yes I do. But even if you didn't you need a REASON - and "many believe" is not a good enough one! Got anything better?

I have plenty of reasons, as do many on this planet. Deal with it.

Yeah - it's not an explanation. If it were an explanation, you could work out what the data would be without knowing what it was. "The earth is spiritual inside" doesn't tell us anything about anything we can test.

Hey, so called working out the data without knowing what it is is your specialty, not mine.

Wrrrroooooooong! You see, now you're making even more nonsensical claims - you think we don't know that the earth isn't made of holy gravy or pixie dust! Crazy talk.

You know squat about that unknown, why pretend???

You're not giving a REASON. Are you incapable of complying with this simple request?

A reason for what? Why it is unknown? Well because it is unknown. That means unless you make it known, no reason can exist to claim it is known.

Oh really. Where in the Bible does it say anything about spirits under the earth?

Mt 12:40 - For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Eph 4:9 -(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Acts 2:31
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left (kataleipo) in hell (hades), neither his flesh did see corruption. (KJV translation)

Ac 2:27 -Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1Pe 4:6 - For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

No, I don't really doubt it! I ask science folks about the air and about the interior of the earth thanks very much. You don't have a reason to doubt that either of them are physical.

One is testable. Thank you.

The Bellman · Jan 12, 2008

dad said:
"The ancient Egyptians left records describing the First Time as actual historic period."
http://www.corzak.com/egypt/egypt0801.htm

That's nice.

dad said:
Science does make claims all over the place. No wiggling out of it, and all based on assuming that the present is the key to the past. Be honest. Your inability to prove it puts the burden of proof right on your shoulders.

I'm not talking about science - and neither are you, except when you get sufficiently desperate to shift the burden of proof. You have made claims. I have made none. The burden of proof rests entirely on your shoulders. For once, be honest enough to admit it.

dad said:
No need at all, that is already tested, experienced and known the world over, and has been for all time! The minority who chose to be in denial are a sad little joke.

I can experience the evidences like most men, and test them, I do not need to stick them in the PO fishbowl. For all who get their head out of the sand, it is right there. Seek, and you will find. Really.

Which word, fishbowl? Yes.

My claims of things spiritual are beyond science, and supported as such. The claims of science are also beyond science, but they have been too dumb to realize it, and have been badmouthing God for too long. The day of reckoning is breaking. The light is starting to shine on that gross darkness. I kid you not. Let the bells ring!

More of the same. False claims that the spiritual has been evidenced. Yet, amazingly, you can never provide this evidence. Instead all you do is try to avoid having to do so. Honesty in this argument is not in you.

dad · Jan 12, 2008

The Bellman said:
That's nice.

Yes it is, because, unlike your claims before that makes it history.

I'm not talking about science - and neither are you, except when you get sufficiently desperate to shift the burden of proof. You have made claims. I have made none. The burden of proof rests entirely on your shoulders. For once, be honest enough to admit it.

Burden of proof for what? That history is history, the spiritual is well known, men really went to the moon, science has real limits, we do not know the state of the past..???
The burden of spiritual reality is already borne, and it is beyond science to boot. Either way, whatever your point is, science does make plenty of claims, all based on the same past premise. Long as you admit that rug has been jerked out from under them, I suppose having little or no point is fine.

More of the same. False claims that the spiritual has been evidenced.

It has, for most men. It never will be, perhaps till death for some deniers, who run around ignoring anything but the natural. So??

There are spiritual evidences, and there are physical evidences, we do not expect natural evidence in this temporary state for the supernatural. But we do see plenty of spiritual evidences in real lives. In fulfilled prophesies, and many other ways. Be honest, ask around, you will hear some accounts.

How unlike the silly fables of so called science, like the big whack, talked about in this thread!~!!

The moon it is cracked,
Cause a 'planet' got jacked
Yes,it grazed us just so,
And back up it did go,
To poof up real soon,
What we now call the moon,
And to think it all started,
When a little star farted
Brings a tear to the eye
As I glance at the sky.

dad · Jan 12, 2008

FishFace said:
Well done, you get top marks in "not getting the point." Universal negatives are unprovable!

Sorry you did not get the point, so are claims there is no spiritual, or a same past state.

Why are you asking me to prove one? It's up to you to provide evidence for your claims, not up to me to provide evidence against them.

We already know there is a spiritual, most of us. If you say no, it's up to you to provide evidence for your claims, not up to me to provide evidence against them. Science depends on a same past state for far past scenarios it cooks up. It's up to you to provide evidence for your claims, not up to me to provide evidence against them. Are you getting this??

A reasonable assumption as long as there's no reason to believe otherwise. You've not given us such a reason.

No assumption is all that reasonable if it addresses something it has no clue about! I have to tell you this? The thing about the interior of the earth that is being touched on here, is what science claims about it. That has to have a scientific reason. Really.
When none can be given, and pure assumptions, and flying blind as a bat kick in, then we look for other reasons. Chief among them is the bible! And I got that in spades, and then some!

You test every bit of air you breathe to see whether it's spiritual or physical? Of course not, you just assume that ALL the air is physical because SOME of it is! You're carrying your assumption TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!

No I do not test air. That criteria of reality never really hit me as the ultimate measure of reality. I know that science has worked extensively with it. It is simply not reasonable to ignore facts.

It's just locked. Answer the question.

Depends who locked it, and if any man ever was in there to look around or not. I like to deal in knowing, not making stuff up. Try it sometime.

There's plenty of evidence that the interior of the earth is physical. There's no evidence that it is anything else.

False, not that has been presented here. Bouncing waves off of God knows what thousands of miles under the earth is not physical evidence of what is down there. It is evidence of how a wave reacts to whatever it happens to be.

Uh, no - by "my" (and every other person who knows anything about epistemology) standards, 'Noone grew a new leg' is a universal negative. Unprovable.
You provide some evidence for it.

I don't believe you. Piece of cake. It is as easy as sticking an ear that was cut off back on, and having it normal. No sweat.

Still no good reason to believe the earth is spiritual inside?

Well, guess we don't really know, now do we, so why pretend??

So how do you tell which are good to doubt and which are bad?

Well, if it opposes what God says, I doubt it. It it then proceeds to be unproven as well as ungodly, and intellectually offensive, and morally repugnant, why, go ahead and doubt it.
If it agrees with God, and science, and all evidences we have, and it is observed, and known, why, hec, why doubt for nothing??

Because there's just as much evidence for the earth being physical as there is for the air being physical, or the inside of a room being physical.

Funny you can't present it, then!!! Don't go getting weird on us now, and start with the wild claims.

The Bellman · Jan 12, 2008

dad said:
Burden of proof for what?

Burden of proof for your repeated claims that something exists beyond the material.

dad said:
That history is history, the spiritual is well known, men really went to the moon, science has real limits, we do not know the state of the past..???
The burden of spiritual reality is already borne, and it is beyond science to boot. Either way, whatever your point is, science does make plenty of claims, all based on the same past premise. Long as you admit that rug has been jerked out from under them, I suppose having little or no point is fine.

It has, for most men. It never will be, perhaps till death for some deniers, who run around ignoring anything but the natural. So??

There are spiritual evidences, and there are physical evidences, we do not expect natural evidence in this temporary state for the supernatural. But we do see plenty of spiritual evidences in real lives. In fulfilled prophesies, and many other ways. Be honest, ask around, you will hear some accounts.

How unlike the silly fables of so called science, like the big whack, talked about in this thread!~!!

The moon it is cracked,
Cause a 'planet' got jacked
Yes,it grazed us just so,
And back up it did go,
To poof up real soon,
What we now call the moon,
And to think it all started,
When a little star farted
Brings a tear to the eye
As I glance at the sky.

The normal attempts to be funny and 'cute', evasions, and false claims. What is notably lacking is any evidence to support your claims - which is nothing surprising. You never have any evidence to support your claims, which is why they are completely worthless.

FishFace · Jan 12, 2008

dad said:
Well, to be more concise, they say that the universe could expand forever!!

Could well do!

It is out, Try it yourself.

No proof you're willing to give? Shame.

And why do we know, class? Right, because man was in there, Guess what, h was not in the center of the eart, no matter how you try to WAVE that away.

Oh, did I not say? You've never been in this room before. So, is it spiritual inside all of a sudden?

I have plenty of reasons, as do many on this planet.

But you won't tell us. Fine. Go away.

Hey, so called working out the data without knowing what it is is your specialty, not mine.

You don't see why that is the hallmark of a good explanation?

You know squat about that unknown, why pretend???

All of the following are crazy talk:

The interior of the earth is pixie dust
The interior of the earth is spiritual stuff
The interior of the earth is holy gravy

Because there's no reason to believe any of them.

Mt 12:40 - For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Eph 4:9 -(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Acts 2:31
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left (kataleipo) in hell (hades), neither his flesh did see corruption. (KJV translation)

Ac 2:27 -Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1Pe 4:6 - For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Sorry, none of those support your claims.

One is testable. Thank you.

How do you test that the piece of air you just breathed in is physical, please?

dad · Jan 13, 2008

The Bellman said:
Burden of proof for your repeated claims that something exists beyond the material.

The normal attempts to be funny and 'cute', evasions, and false claims. What is notably lacking is any evidence to support your claims - which is nothing surprising. You never have any evidence to support your claims, which is why they are completely worthless.

The only worthless thing is claims that are science that cannot be supported. Mine are backed by God, whether that is good enough for you or not doesn't matter.
If I was a believer in old age evolution, stellar. and animal, from basically nothing, I would attempt to defend it. You have your little moon fable slapped around, and take it lying down. Strange.

dad · Jan 13, 2008

FishFace said:
Could well do!

Infinity and beyond, then. Like I said they claim.

No proof you're willing to give? Shame.

I took it, as all must do, physical men can't give spiritual proof. And if they do, like raising from the dead, healing thousands, or millions, folks like you would deny it anyhow. It is not a lack of proof, it is a denial of it that is the only issue for some.

Oh, did I not say? You've never been in this room before. So, is it spiritual inside all of a sudden?

If it is in the center of the earth, maybe.

All of the following are crazy talk:

The interior of the earth is pixie dust

The interior of the earth is spiritual stuff

The interior of the earth is holy gravy

Great.

How do you test that the piece of air you just breathed in is physical, please?

I'll leave that to you, it isn't a burning issue for me.

The Bellman · Jan 13, 2008

dad said:
The only worthless thing is claims that are science that cannot be supported. Mine are backed by God, whether that is good enough for you or not doesn't matter.
If I was a believer in old age evolution, stellar. and animal, from basically nothing, I would attempt to defend it. You have your little moon fable slapped around, and take it lying down. Strange.

That's nice. I've made no claims at all, yet you're ranting about other people's claims. Take it up with them. All I'm asking is for you to support your claims. Don't tell me about other people's claims - support your claims. For once, step up, be a man, and support your own claims.

dad · Jan 13, 2008

The Bellman said:
That's nice. I've made no claims at all, yet you're ranting about other people's claims.

Newsflash: Science makes all sorts of claims, are you disagreeing with them, or just unable to defend them? Claims like talked about in this thread, say, about the moon, or earth center.

Take it up with them. All I'm asking is for you to support your claims. Don't tell me about other people's claims - support your claims. For once, step up, be a man, and support your own claims.

My claim about what?? I generally support them as I go. Take for example the claim I make that man does not really know the center of the earth. I address each attempt that posters make to say that man does know. You are talking silly talk.
Normally, I try to be patient, because some attempt to make a point, you offer just the pure fluff, and bell ringing.

FishFace · Jan 13, 2008

dad said:
Sorry you did not get the point, so are claims there is no spiritual, or a same past state.

That, dad, is the point. Because they're unprovable it doesn't make sense to ask for them to be proved, does it! It's up to you to present evidence of spirits, not up to others to prove the unprovable!
Or are you ready to prove that there is no invisible elephant in your wardrobe?

We already know there is a spiritual, most of us. If you say no, it's up to you to provide evidence for your claims, not up to me to provide evidence against them.

Wrong. All the "evidence" you have is "Lots of people agree with me." That's not evidence, that's popularity. Get some evidence. Give us a reason.
It's not as if any of the people you claim agree with you actually do, anyway. Noone but you thinks that the earth isn't made of physical stuff inside, except for one or two utter nutjobs who think it's hollow.

Science depends on a same past state for far past scenarios it cooks up. It's up to you to provide evidence for your claims, not up to me to provide evidence against them. Are you getting this??

WRONG AGAIN. Why should we doubt that the past was the same as the present? You give us no reason to think it was any different. You are making the positive claim, "The past was different," so it is up to you to give evidence, a reason.

No assumption is all that reasonable if it addresses something it has no clue about! I have to tell you this? The thing about the interior of the earth that is being touched on here, is what science claims about it. That has to have a scientific reason. Really.

We have our scientific explanation. Give us a reason that it's wrong. We have a reason that it's right - the pattern of seismic waves. Give us a reason that it's wrong.

When none can be given, and pure assumptions, and flying blind as a bat kick in, then we look for other reasons. Chief among them is the bible! And I got that in spades, and then some!

You can't back up your claims with the Bible as you showed, and even if you could, the Bible isn't evidence, it's just a book.

No I do not test air.

Then you are FLYING BLIND! For all you know the air could actually be:

Pixie dust
Spiritual air
Invisible holy gravy

Or we could go with the sensible option which is that air is just normal physical stuff. Like the middle of the earth.

Depends who locked it, and if any man ever was in there to look around or not.

No it does not. You come to a locked door with a locked room. You don't know whether anyone's been in or out, or who locked the door. Is the inside physical?

False, not that has been presented here. Bouncing waves off of God knows what thousands of miles under the earth is not physical evidence of what is down there. It is evidence of how a wave reacts to whatever it happens to be.

And putting in "physical liquid core" just happens to explain it. Now give us a reason why it isn't a physical liquid core.

I don't believe you. Piece of cake. It is as easy as sticking an ear that was cut off back on, and having it normal. No sweat.

So you've no evidence that anyone ever regrew a limb. Thought not.

Well, guess we don't really know, now do we, so why pretend??

Well, we certainly don't know that the earth is spiritual inside, you're right! Probably because it isn't!

Funny you can't present it, then!!! Don't go getting weird on us now, and start with the wild claims.

Oh, sorry, you must have missed the P&S wave patterns. Tell me, what evidence do you think there is for the bit of air you just breathed being physical? Or the inside of the room?

FishFace · Jan 13, 2008

dad said:
Infinity and beyond, then. Like I said they claim.

Well, you have a better idea? Nope, you've just got a book that says different. Hey, dad - my book says you don't exist!

I took it, as all must do, physical men can't give spiritual proof.

Then why are you still bothering trying to convince us there's a spiritual if you've not got any proof?!

If it is in the center of the earth, maybe.

Answer the question properly - is the inside of this room spiritual or physical? As far as you can tell it's just normal - normal walls, but no windows. A door, that is locked. There's a chimney with smoke coming out. (But I guess that could be from a spiritual fire, no??)

So tell us - how do you know whether inside this room is physical or spiritual?

I'll leave that to you, it isn't a burning issue for me.

So you've no evidence. You're flying blind, apparently. And yet you still believe the air is physical! What a stupid assumption?
OR NOT! Maybe it's just that it's loony to believe that the air you breathe, the inside of a room, or the inside of the earth is anything but physical. Maybe you need evidence before you can claim otherwise.

dad · Jan 13, 2008

FishFace said:
That, dad, is the point. Because they're unprovable it doesn't make sense to ask for them to be proved, does it! It's up to you to present evidence of spirits, not up to others to prove the unprovable!

So is the fate of fairy tales.

Or are you ready to prove that there is no invisible elephant in your wardrobe?

No, just focus on your science here.

Wrong. All the "evidence" you have is "Lots of people agree with me." That's not evidence, that's popularity. Get some evidence. Give us a reason.

Your evidence is "Far far far less people agree with me" Work on that!

It's not as if any of the people you claim agree with you actually do, anyway. Noone but you thinks that the earth isn't made of physical stuff inside, except for one or two utter nutjobs who think it's hollow.

What people think the unknown might be matters not. Backing up your claims matters.

WRONG AGAIN. Why should we doubt that the past was the same as the present? You give us no reason to think it was any different.

Easy, there is no reason to think it was the same. Not only your total lack of evidence, but I also have the bible. That gives real reasons.

You are making the positive claim, "The past was different," so it is up to you to give evidence, a reason.

You are making the positive claim, "The past was the same" and base ALL so called science dealing with the far past on that!! So it is up to you to give evidence, a reason. The bible tells of a different past, that is a reason to doubt baseless claims to the contrary.

We have our scientific explanation. Give us a reason that it's wrong. We have a reason that it's right - the pattern of seismic waves. Give us a reason that it's wrong.

No you don't. You fly blind, and talk big.

You can't back up your claims with the Bible as you showed, and even if you could, the Bible isn't evidence, it's just a book.

Yes I can, the present is temporary, the future and past are quite different. Really. I can, I did, I win.

Then you are FLYING BLIND! For all you know the air could actually be:

Pixie dust

Spiritual air

Invisible holy gravy

No, that is your resort to fall back on if science fails. It failed!! Now support your other myths!!! Face it fishface, in the myth department, your inventions are not even a minor player!

Or we could go with the sensible option which is that air is just normal physical stuff. Like the middle of the earth.

You think there is air in there now??? Weird.

No it does not. You come to a locked door with a locked room. You don't know whether anyone's been in or out, or who locked the door. Is the inside physical?

How would anyone know??? I cheated, God made it, so He knows. Try the cheat sheet, it is cool. Otherwise, you got nothing, and plenty of it.

And putting in "physical liquid core" just happens to explain it. Now give us a reason why it isn't a physical liquid core.

So does a S/P core. So???

So you've no evidence that anyone ever regrew a limb. Thought not.

God's power in all areas is more than evidence that He can do anything, and your utter lack of knowledge about the untold hordes of lame and halt healed, mean you are in NO position to say yea or nay! I mean that.

Well, we certainly don't know that the earth is spiritual inside, you're right! Probably because it isn't!

You are correct, you certainly don't know.

Oh, sorry, you must have missed the P&S wave patterns. Tell me, what evidence do you think there is for the bit of air you just breathed being physical? Or the inside of the room?

What about them says that whatever they are bouncing off of has to be PO??? Nothing!!!!

thaumaturgy · Jan 13, 2008

dad said:
We already know there is a spiritual, most of us. If you say no, it's up to you to provide evidence for your claims, not up to me to provide evidence against them.

dad said:
No, just focus on your science here.
Your evidence is "Far far far less people agree with me" Work on that!

What people think the unknown might be matters not. Backing up your claims matters.

And here we have it folks! In one post Dad claims a popularity-basis for his claims and in another not but a couple posts later says these popularity issues are not important.

Dad wants you to disprove his wild ideas (which he supports with argumentum ad populum) and when called to task that this is not a valid argument in support of a factual claim then denies the value of his own claim basis!

Dad shoots his own foot. Not just a little, but with a giant bazooka of his own making.

And strangely enough he won't even acquiesce that he could have done this!

It's down the rabbit hole! Into the breach. When you follow dad into his disorganized thinking this is where you wind up.

This is why I will always trust a scientist over people like Dad. Because even if Dad were right on anything the fact that he never admits he could be mistaken and he almost never provides significant support for his claims, , means he is of no use to teach me anything.

I am automatically distrustful of demagogues who will brook no self-examination.

FishFace · Jan 13, 2008

dad said:
So is the fate of fairy tales.

No, just focus on your science here.
Your evidence is "Far far far less people agree with me" Work on that!

What people think the unknown might be matters not. Backing up your claims matters.

Easy, there is no reason to think it was the same. Not only your total lack of evidence, but I also have the bible. That gives real reasons.

You are making the positive claim, "The past was the same" and base ALL so called science dealing with the far past on that!! So it is up to you to give evidence, a reason. The bible tells of a different past, that is a reason to doubt baseless claims to the contrary.

No you don't. You fly blind, and talk big.

Yes I can, the present is temporary, the future and past are quite different. Really. I can, I did, I win.

No, that is your resort to fall back on if science fails. It failed!! Now support your other myths!!! Face it fishface, in the myth department, your inventions are not even a minor player!

You think there is air in there now??? Weird.

How would anyone know??? I cheated, God made it, so He knows. Try the cheat sheet, it is cool. Otherwise, you got nothing, and plenty of it.

So does a S/P core. So???

God's power in all areas is more than evidence that He can do anything, and your utter lack of knowledge about the untold hordes of lame and halt healed, mean you are in NO position to say yea or nay! I mean that.

You are correct, you certainly don't know.

What about them says that whatever they are bouncing off of has to be PO??? Nothing!!!!

Here's the deal, dad:

A physical interior to the earth is compatible with the data. So is a spiritual interior. So is an interior made of pixie dust.
A physical interior to a locked room is compatible with the data. So is a spiritual interior. So is an interior made of pixie dust.

In each case, I want you to tell me WHICH of the three options we should choose and give me good reasons why I should agree with you. Don't bother responding in any way other than trying to provide good reasons. There's no other way of getting around this. Here's a hint as to what are NOT good reasons:

Everyone agrees with me. This is an argumentum ad populum fallacy. The truth is not a democracy. Just people think you're right doesn't mean you are.
The Bible supports me. First of all, the Bible has nothing to say on either of the questions. Second of all, even if it did, just because it's written in a book does not mean it's true.

Good reasons are things like evidence. Neither of the above are evidence.

dad · Jan 13, 2008

thaumaturgy said:
And here we have it folks! In one post Dad claims a popularity-basis for his claims and in another not but a couple posts later says these popularity issues are not important.

Dad wants you to disprove his wild ideas (which he supports with argumentum ad populum) and when called to task that this is not a valid argument in support of a factual claim then denies the value of his own claim basis!

Dad shoots his own foot. Not just a little, but with a giant bazooka of his own making.

And strangely enough he won't even acquiesce that he could have done this!

It's down the rabbit hole! Into the breach. When you follow dad into his disorganized thinking this is where you wind up.

This is why I will always trust a scientist over people like Dad. Because even if Dad were right on anything the fact that he never admits he could be mistaken and he almost never provides significant support for his claims, , means he is of no use to teach me anything.

I am automatically distrustful of demagogues who will brook no self-examination.

Context.
The fact that most believe in a spiritual of some kind is evidence. Not that they are right, but that there has to be something to it.

On the other hand, science claims need more than guesses. The interior of the earth is unknown. THAT is why opinions of so called science cannot matter. They are based on nothing. The evidence of the spiritual is based on something. Billions of things, ghosts, angels, miracles, resurrection from the dead, etc etc etc. Learning the difference between making stuff up, and reality of man's experiences is a good thing.

Nathan Poe · Jan 13, 2008

dad said:
Context.
The fact that most believe in a spiritual of some kind is evidence. Not that they are right, but that there has to be something to it.

There need be nothing to it -- Most people might simply be wrong.

dad · Jan 13, 2008

FishFace said:
Here's the deal, dad:

A physical interior to the earth is compatible with the data. So is a spiritual interior.

Bingo.

A physical interior to a locked room is compatible with the data. So is a spiritual interior. So is an interior made of pixie dust.

What data? What room? You made it up. Focus.

In each case, I want you to tell me WHICH of the three options we should choose and give me good reasons why I should agree with you. Don't bother responding in any way other than trying to provide good reasons. There's no other way of getting around this. Here's a hint as to what are NOT good reasons:

No other way, eh? We shall see.

Everyone agrees with me. This is an argumentum ad populum fallacy. The truth is not a democracy. Just people think you're right doesn't mean you are.

Click to expand...

So? The concept has more weight with spiritual things, for science, you need a lot more. For spiritual things, the fact that most know about it is evidence. It doesn't swing both ways.

The Bible supports me. First of all, the Bible has nothing to say on either of the questions. Second of all, even if it did, just because it's written in a book does not mean it's true.

Click to expand...

Spirits under the earth. Focus, man.

Good reasons are things like evidence. Neither of the above are evidence.

Evidence of spiritual impacts are people affected by the impacts. It is not rocks or bones, or stars. Deal with it. Better for you, apparently not to venture out of the PO fishbowl with your concepts. All things are not equal. One size does not fit all when dealing with the spiritual and physical. Not in this man's universe!!!

thaumaturgy · Jan 13, 2008

dad said:
Context.
The fact that most believe in a spiritual of some kind is evidence. Not that they are right, but that there has to be something to it.

Remind me to forward all the e-mail scams I get from the wife of slain military strong men who need to move millions out of their countries and want to use my bank account.

On the other hand, science claims need more than guesses.

Yeah, we get it. You demand science live up to a higher standard than you demand of your own claims.

I think we all understand that now.

Too bad you have to contend (daily) with this:

[BIBLE]Luke 6:31[/BIBLE]

(BTW, I'm going to keep reminding you of the words of your lord and savior as long as it takes. Even if you get really tired of hearing them. He is, after all, important to you, isn't he?)

The interior of the earth is unknown. THAT is why opinions of so called science cannot matter. They are based on nothing.

You've been shown what the "opinions" of science are based on. Even we scientists acquiesce that we might be mistaken on some things. However you cannot ever say our "opinion" is based on nothing.

I will thank you to correct that statement.

The evidence of the spiritual is based on something. Billions of things, ghosts, angels, miracles, resurrection from the dead, etc etc etc.

Argumentum ad populum. And of course a bit of overcredulity on your part.

Learning the difference between making stuff up, and reality of man's experiences is a good thing.

Indeed it is. You are finally right on something.

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