Monday Morning Quarterbacks...

[catlover]

Do you not love it, when people presume you divorced because you somehow had a character flaw or you divorced for frivolous reasons such as bad sex etc???

AND you absolutely destroyed your children by divorcing...honestly such people who make such judgements really irk me...they run rampant in the Christian community...

 

[5kidsdad]

Do you not love it, when people presume you divorced because you somehow had a character flaw or you divorced for frivolous reasons such as bad sex etc???

AND you absolutely destroyed your children by divorcing...honestly such people who make such judgements really irk me...they run rampant in the Christian community...

You are so right. I believe I said it a long time ago on one of my posts. You have to seek God's will for your life. There is no cookie cutter answer for everyone in this type of situation. If you have a partner who is willing to work with you, then you are truly blessed. The Bible states that we are to work out our own salvation "with fear and trembling." What works for one person might not be what works for another. I wish that my STBX would be willing to be honest with me, and then I would be willing to go to counciling with her. She can't admit what she has done to me, I am not worth her pride, so I am really not given much of a choice but to leave. I don't want to, the feeling of failure is sometimes oppressive. I have sought the council of many wise people, my minister, and have prayed and fasted like I haven't in a long time. If anyone can admit that they are pleased they have to go through all of this, then I don't know how. There is the division of the home, making plans for the children, trying to scrape enough money together to start your own place, etc. It is difficult, but I think that most of us have really sought advice, and prayed about it. I hope that God will move on my STBX. It is hard for me to believe that she will go through life believing a lie that she created, and it hurts that she will just go on, and allow me to believe that it was a figment of my imagination. And yes, it seems that sometimes those who are charged by His Word to be compassionate to others often are the most judgmental. That is a sad state that we, as Christians, have fallen into.

5kd

 

[dayknee]

<raises her hand> I get it all the time..Although I am yet to be divorced..I get dirty looks, I get the "follow Gods word" or " did you know that God hates divorce" like..DUHH??..I have had TWO divorced and remarried people in my own church tell me how much worse off the kids will be without both parents. I've had the same two people tell me their stories of their first marriages that ended in divorce..both were NOT so innocent..But of course NOWWW they are the most "godly" people the church has on their ministry team. Hey look, Im not judging them but sheeesh..why is it that my marriage and my divorce are such a concern of theirs..ONe of them neglected his wife so horribly and took to bike riding that she (NOT CONDONING OR AGREEING WITH THIS) had an affair and feel inlove with someone else and left him..now he heads the celebrate recovery program with is now wife..and the othe who is a woman is head of our womens ministry, married a drug addict whom which she shared the drug life style with and willingly did sexually inappropriate things with her husband and others..until she started to "fly right"..she even told me that "you can't change your husband if you divorce him" HAHAHAH..yeah..okay..
So I know all too well how christians can be. Its hurtful and painful and just..gahhh..very very upsetting and it does make me feel like a horrible person..
Im sorry there are people that do that to you also.

 

[FaithfulWife]

I'll just say this--for YEARS I left Christianity because of the way I was treated when I was divorcing.

I loved my husband. I was NOT unfaithful to him but I was not perfect. He on the other hand was unfaithful numerous times, would not repent, and was physically abusive. Now do you suppose that even ONE person would raise their voice and say "Hey man, stop your sinning and return to the wife of your youth? Stop being physically abusive and get some counseling man!" Of course not!! On THAT topic they were silent, but since I continued to go to church and bring my children and ask for prayer and support, naturally they spoke up and told me what a horrible wife I must be for him to turn to another woman.

<SNAP>

That was it for me! See ya!

Now, I am a Christian again after many, many, many years away, and I'm not telling anyone anything personal or I know I'll just get that crazy judgment again! (rolleyes) Thankfully I am close with G-d and I know where HE stands on the issue--and I don't really listen to the people. Lalala! Lalala!

 

[fivepointTULIP]

Ah, but LW, don't you know? The only reason there are ever problems in a marriage is because....


drumroll please.....


The wife wasn't submissive or obedient enough!!


Didn't you know that? Because regardless of what I am told, I sure don't know that.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Do you not love it, when people presume you divorced because you somehow had a character flaw or you divorced for frivolous reasons such as bad sex etc???

AND you absolutely destroyed your children by divorcing...honestly such people who make such judgements really irk me...they run rampant in the Christian community...

Lots of people wrecked from divorce also run rampant in the Christian community. From what I've seen around half of Christian divorces are not due to adultery which makes them not in line with what Christ teaches. Should it irk you when such things concern others?

 

[catlover]

Lots of people wrecked from divorce also run rampant in the Christian community. From what I've seen around half of Christian divorces are not due to adultery which makes them not in line with what Christ teaches. Should it irk you when such things concern others?

It's not biblical to divorce because someone is mean my ex is was mean...so it concerns me... I stayed hoping it would get better and left because I had to. So it bothers me when people assume I left because he didn't give me good sex.

 

[Million Pieces]

I'm getting from others that if we just TALK more, and DATE each other, we'll find that love we once had. Just pray harder, and let God heal the hurts. Just go to a good strong Christian counsellor, take This and This and That marriage encounter program, and it will ALL BE BETTER!

*rolls eyes*

 

[Autumnleaf]

I'm getting from others that if we just TALK more, and DATE each other, we'll find that love we once had. Just pray harder, and let God heal the hurts. Just go to a good strong Christian counsellor, take This and This and That marriage encounter program, and it will ALL BE BETTER!

*rolls eyes*

Maybe it is silly to keep trying when you don't much feel like it.

 

[Million Pieces]

There's a lot more that goes on (or doesn't go on) than just not "feeling like it". I would love to think we could repair our marriage, I would love to be able to re-capture what we had so long ago. Snark is just another one of those presumptive responses we're tired of gettign too, BTW.

What we had has been gone for a very long time. He has completely replaced me and my affection, and his afftection FOR me, with others. And even tonight, he doesnt' grasp how that is still an offense to me for him to email with her. In his mind, there's no "marriage" left to be cheating on. He's moved on, he's just not legally free of me.

I have to be free of him too. I need it for MY mental well-being. We are just toxic for each other. There's to much deliberate hurt going on, I can never investigate my own personhood as long as he's close enough to influence me. We can't even talk as "friends", we can't confide in each other without listening through filters of mistrust and hurt and anger.

 

[catlover]

I'm getting from others that if we just TALK more, and DATE each other, we'll find that love we once had. Just pray harder, and let God heal the hurts. Just go to a good strong Christian counsellor, take This and This and That marriage encounter program, and it will ALL BE BETTER!

*rolls eyes*

Yes let's just talk more and go on a little date-try this my ex came over to bring our daughter to a movie and, allegedly, bring our son out. Takes dear daughter to a movie and then comes in the apartment and plunks his butt in the chair in front of the computer.

I was trying to think of ways to tell him to leave without getting him angry. Eventually I asked my son to please go with his dad to the store and get some onion soup mix for the moose meat...

Almost every time he opened his mouth it was horrid. All he did was blame George Bush for our marriage breaking up and his life being so poor.

Then he asked me why our dear daughter didn't have a brand new winter jacket...he could have brought her out for one...if she has to wear last year's coat for a little while it's not that bad.

 

[Autumnleaf]

There's a lot more that goes on (or doesn't go on) than just not "feeling like it". I would love to think we could repair our marriage, I would love to be able to re-capture what we had so long ago. Snark is just another one of those presumptive responses we're tired of gettign too, BTW.

What we had has been gone for a very long time. He has completely replaced me and my affection, and his afftection FOR me, with others. And even tonight, he doesnt' grasp how that is still an offense to me for him to email with her. In his mind, there's no "marriage" left to be cheating on. He's moved on, he's just not legally free of me.

I have to be free of him too. I need it for MY mental well-being. We are just toxic for each other. There's to much deliberate hurt going on, I can never investigate my own personhood as long as he's close enough to influence me. We can't even talk as "friends", we can't confide in each other without listening through filters of mistrust and hurt and anger.

Since you are "toxic" for each other and unwilling to be different then its obvious you know best. Its not like you could choose to behave differently and not be toxic towards him. Is it?

 

[Canadian Eh?]

Delete

 

[FaithfulWife]

I'm getting from others that if we just TALK more, and DATE each other, we'll find that love we once had. Just pray harder, and let God heal the hurts. Just go to a good strong Christian counsellor, take This and This and That marriage encounter program, and it will ALL BE BETTER!

*rolls eyes*

MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACK NOTE TO SELF: The "Christians" who tell you that you did not stay long enough, didn't submit, or to just go to "this" marriage encounter did not live even a week in your home. Thus, they do not know all that has occurred and really are not in a place to judge. If you didn't specifically ask them for their opinion/advice, I personally say ignore them and do you best to chalk it up to spiritual immaturity.

MP and catlover~ I need to tell you both something fairly specific to you. In real life you know how everyone quotes that verse from Malachi 2 that God hates divorce? Listen to ALL of the verses:

Malachi 2:14-16
14Yet you ask, Why does He reject it? Because the Lord was witness [to the covenant made at your marriage] between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously and to whom you were faithless. Yet she is your companion and the wife of your covenant [made by your marriage vows].

15And did not God make [you and your wife] one [flesh]? Did not One make you and preserve your spirit alive? And why [did God make you two] one? Because He sought a godly offspring [from your union]. Therefore take heed to yourselves, and let no one deal treacherously and be faithless to the wife of his youth.

16For the Lord, the God of Israel, says: I hate divorce and marital separation and him who covers his garment [his wife] with violence. Therefore keep a watch upon your spirit [that it may be controlled by My Spirit], that you deal not treacherously and faithlessly [with your marriage mate].


SEVERAL times G-d warns in there not to be faithless to the wife of your youth...and to not cover your house in violence! Yet in Christian churches when someone is harming their family and their marriage with porn, with adultery, with drugs or drinking or some addiction, or with domestic violence the spouse is told to stay and pray because "...God hates divorce." Yes, that's true! HE HATES IT WHEN SOMEONE HARMS THEIR FAMILY BY SINNING! That's the person who is destroying things, not the spouse who stayed and prayed and put up with it!

I love marriage. I want each marriage to be a godly, loving covenant union that brings glory to G-d. And in both of your cases I would say that it IS possible that your marriages could be saved, but here's how--I'll be specific:

1) On their own, each one of your husbands would have to admit to themselves that THEY are the one with the problem and humbly acknowledge to themselves that they have to work on their sin.

2) THEN, on their own each one of your husbands would have to eliminate the pride and the blame and come to YOU and admit that they are the ones that had the issue and not you.

3) THEN, on their own, each one of your husbands would have to take the time to do the work to work through their issues--via usually counseling, bible study, making new friends or accountability partners, etc. THEY would have to completely arrange for appointments, getting there, participating in the recovery process, and doing the work...and doing the work to change/improve yourself can be painful and take time. During ALL THIS TIME you might be separated and he would have to hope that you would wait for him.

4) THEN, when he has admitted the problem and worked on his issues on his own without you "helping or nagging"...THEN you could go on the marriage retreat and start dating and find the love you once had.

Now, bear in mind that I do not think it's "all their fault" and place full responsibility for the marital breakdown on them. While you were separated, I would counsel/suggest that you also work on YOU...go to counseling, bible studies, etc. to become a better wife and woman. But the fact is this: YOU ARE NOT THE ONE WHO LEFT THE MARRIAGE: they left by checking out and/or turning to others, and as such it would be in a large part up to them to admit and repent.

 

[captiveheart]

I had countless lunches and coffees with friends from church. They all told me how broken up my ex was and how she wanted to work things out and yadda bladda. They quoted scriptures and prayed with me and tried to lay the golden word of wisdom that would undo all of the things that destroyed our marriage.

They knew only what they had "heard" from people she had told, and of course she was the victim. She was a teacher at the church school and very well thought of. No one knew her like I did. I was tempted to clear myself of the untruths but the fact was I was not without some blame, and while people believed awful things about me, I just let it go. I stopped going to church for 3 years and then started at the church I go to now.

It's sad now that most of the people who tried to counsel me in my marriage are now divorced themselves. I don't think badly of them. People just get lost sometimes and just can't find their way back.

 

[Flibbertigibbet]

I would just like to toss out some praise for my pastor and church family - never once during the troubled times leading up to separation, and ultimately divorce, did they make me feel that I was going against God's word.

My pastor and several other church members with whom I am close knew the story of the derail of this marriage secondary to my husband's alcoholism and numerous other problems. My pastor and one of the deacons made several attempts to counsel with him, to no avail.

We all prayed for him, that God might work in his life, and we continue to do so. Nobody in my small church family has condemned me for divorcing, even those who are not aware of all of the circumstances.

I praise God for leading me to this supportive and loving church - a Southern Baptist church in the heart of the South, probably one of the places you might most expect to find such condemnation.

 

[Million Pieces]

Only a couple of our pastoral staff knows about his affairs, and we have not come forward to our brand new senior pastor about it. I'm beginning to want him to come under some kind of support or counsel from the church specifically. At very least to bring him back under some accountability spiritually, so far he has specifically, defiantly, STUBBORNLY refused to enter into spiritual discipline about it. He doesnt' pray, he even resists his OWN spirit's prompting of his conscience. That would be the single source of restoration here, and it's the ONE thing he absolutely refuses to do.

 

[catlover]

MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACK NOTE TO SELF: The "Christians" who tell you that you did not stay long enough, didn't submit, or to just go to "this" marriage encounter did not live even a week in your home. Thus, they do not know all that has occurred and really are not in a place to judge. If you didn't specifically ask them for their opinion/advice, I personally say ignore them and do you best to chalk it up to spiritual immaturity.

MP and catlover~ I need to tell you both something fairly specific to you. In real life you know how everyone quotes that verse from Malachi 2 that God hates divorce? Listen to ALL of the verses:

Malachi 2:14-16
14Yet you ask, Why does He reject it? Because the Lord was witness [to the covenant made at your marriage] between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously and to whom you were faithless. Yet she is your companion and the wife of your covenant [made by your marriage vows].

15And did not God make [you and your wife] one [flesh]? Did not One make you and preserve your spirit alive? And why [did God make you two] one? Because He sought a godly offspring [from your union]. Therefore take heed to yourselves, and let no one deal treacherously and be faithless to the wife of his youth.

16For the Lord, the God of Israel, says: I hate divorce and marital separation and him who covers his garment [his wife] with violence. Therefore keep a watch upon your spirit [that it may be controlled by My Spirit], that you deal not treacherously and faithlessly [with your marriage mate].


SEVERAL times G-d warns in there not to be faithless to the wife of your youth...and to not cover your house in violence! Yet in Christian churches when someone is harming their family and their marriage with porn, with adultery, with drugs or drinking or some addiction, or with domestic violence the spouse is told to stay and pray because "...God hates divorce." Yes, that's true! HE HATES IT WHEN SOMEONE HARMS THEIR FAMILY BY SINNING! That's the person who is destroying things, not the spouse who stayed and prayed and put up with it!

I love marriage. I want each marriage to be a godly, loving covenant union that brings glory to G-d. And in both of your cases I would say that it IS possible that your marriages could be saved, but here's how--I'll be specific:

1) On their own, each one of your husbands would have to admit to themselves that THEY are the one with the problem and humbly acknowledge to themselves that they have to work on their sin.

2) THEN, on their own each one of your husbands would have to eliminate the pride and the blame and come to YOU and admit that they are the ones that had the issue and not you.

3) THEN, on their own, each one of your husbands would have to take the time to do the work to work through their issues--via usually counseling, bible study, making new friends or accountability partners, etc. THEY would have to completely arrange for appointments, getting there, participating in the recovery process, and doing the work...and doing the work to change/improve yourself can be painful and take time. During ALL THIS TIME you might be separated and he would have to hope that you would wait for him.

4) THEN, when he has admitted the problem and worked on his issues on his own without you "helping or nagging"...THEN you could go on the marriage retreat and start dating and find the love you once had.

Now, bear in mind that I do not think it's "all their fault" and place full responsibility for the marital breakdown on them. While you were separated, I would counsel/suggest that you also work on YOU...go to counseling, bible studies, etc. to become a better wife and woman. But the fact is this: YOU ARE NOT THE ONE WHO LEFT THE MARRIAGE: they left by checking out and/or turning to others, and as such it would be in a large part up to them to admit and repent.

Thank you for posting the rest of that Scripture Faithful...

 

[eatenbylocusts]

I also have never received any condemnation in real life. Actually no one at my Presbyterian church said much of anything. I remember the pastor squeezing my hand and looking pained during the time I was separated, but that's it. One more reason I'm joining a new church. Been gone since May after 18 years at that church and I haven't received one call asking where I've been. Last week at church one of the men stood up to thank God for the restoration of his marriage about a year ago. The pastor had counciled the wife to leave because of drugs, but she decided to stay and he got clean.

 

[hope4today]

I also received nothing but loving support and care from my church family when my husband left with another woman. I am very blessed with the church communities I have been part of.

Yes, God hates divorce - so do I!! But he doesn't hate it because it is the sin of sins... He hates it because it is soooo painful, detroys homes, families, friendships and does not reflect the faithful love of Christ to the church but that doesn't mean he doesn't understand why divorce happens or condemns the divorcee. We cannot control the sin of others, even those we are married to.

Sadly, I know that there are others who do not receive such love from the body of Christ. My heart goes out to you, divorce is hard enough without adding condemnation to it. I pray you will all feel the love and comfort of Christ through his Spirit and through his Church.