EmSw
White Horse Rider
- Apr 26, 2014
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3) There is only one Reformed theology (aside from minor variations). Westboro Baptist Cult is not even Christian, much less Reformed.
Westboro Baptist is a 5-point, Calvinist Church. About Westboro Baptist Church
First, you must understand that the term 'Arminian' is many times one of convenience
Jacobus Arminius was simply the first to set forth a biblical response challenging Calvin's doctrines as unbiblical.
You're making my point for me - there are many Calvinist factions that claim to be the only truly Reformed while dismissing all the other's claims as such because they don't meet their particular group's doctrinal standards. For instance, you summarily reject Amyraldians (otherwise known as 4-point or Moderate Calvinists) as not being Reformed although many of them, such as Bullinger and even some who signed the Canons of Dort held those beliefs while completely rejecting Arminianism.
Again proving my point. Reformed Baptists go back to the 1600's and include John Bunyan and Charles Spurgeon. More currently, there's James White and also John Piper who was pastor of a Baptist church for over 30 years. You may reject them as not being sufficiently Reformed because they're Baptists but they certainly wouldn't classify themselves or qualify as Arminians!
Me too - you owe it to yourself and those you engage on these forums to clearly define what form of Calvinism you're associated with. First, I take it that you ascribe to all 5 points of TULIP. Second, are there any particular authors/teachers that you regard as best reflecting your own beliefs (John Gill, A.W. Pink, Jonathan Edwards, John Owen, etc)?
Westboro Baptist is a 5-point, Calvinist Church.
If so, then they were predestined to be what they are. Blame God and be done with it. (But of course, if this is true, then your blaming of God was also predestined by God - so He will take the blame for that as well, and so on and so forth, ad nausium.)
they will burn in hell for their hatred at the very hand of the God they claim to serve—and rightly so.
My post was meant as more of a joke, but then I have known Reformed people who do believe, pretty much, along those lines.Patent misrepresentations like this, frankly, are the reason why Reformed people seem so angry all the time when trying to have profitable conversation with others. This is silly, friend.
Of course, but others such as Michael Servetus weren't as prominent - Arminius was a professor at Leiden University and wrote many books and treatises on theology. He was the vanguard and therefore became the namesake for all who regarded Calvinism as an unbiblical heresy.That's not true. Calvin had many, many theological opponents in his own day.
Reformed theology is defined by the Reformed confessional standards. If someone does not conform, they are by definition not Reformed. A group may be Calvinistic in soteriology, but that does not in any way make them Reformed. They are only Reformed if they hold to the Reformed confessional standards.
So you affirm the Canons of Dort and probably ascribe to the Belgic Confession and the Heidelberg Catechism - you're fundamentally a Dutch Reformed 5-point Calvinist and seem to regard all other Calvinists as deficient and/or unsaved.
It's remarkable to me that you even condemn the Westboros who are also 5-pointers that teach, according to Article 10 of the Canons, that God only loves the elect and hates the rest of mankind who He has chosen to leave in their sin and ultimately destroy - they basically promote an unvarnished, unapologetic version of your exact limited gospel and beliefs, yet you regard them as not even being Christian, much less Reformed.
My post was meant as more of a joke, but then I have known Reformed people who do believe, pretty much, along those lines.
Yikes. Jonathan Edwards style.
What I actually said was: "you seem to regard all other Calvinists as deficient and/or unsaved" based on your comments that any Amyraldians who ever claim allegiance to the Canons of Dort are liars (a character defect) and that the Westboros who are 5-pointers just as you are, are a cult and not even Christians -although they promote the same limited gospel as you do based on Article 10 of the Canons ie, that God elects a chosen few for salvation and hates the rest of mankind who He intends to destroy. Does their practice of merely openly proclaiming your commonly held beliefs somehow make them not Christians?I am disturbed that you gather from what I say that I think all non-Reformed people are unsaved.
I am making no statement regarding anyone's salvation;
I believe you're projecting - I haven't "put words into your mouth or thoughts into your heart that aren't there" but simply responded to what you've actually said. Any "heated rhetoric" certainly hasn't come from me.I would expect far different from someone who professes our Lord. I would suggest a change of heart.
What I actually said was: "you seem to regard all other Calvinists as deficient and/or unsaved" based on your comments that any Amyraldians who ever claim allegiance to the Canons of Dort are liars (a character defect) and that the Westboros who are 5-pointers just as you are, are a cult and not even Christians -although they promote the same limited gospel as you do based on Article 10 of the Canons ie, that God elects a chosen few for salvation and hates the rest of mankind who He intends to destroy. Does their practice of merely openly proclaiming your commonly held beliefs somehow make them not Christians?
I believe you're projecting - I haven't "put words into your mouth or thoughts into your heart that aren't there" but simply responded to what you've actually said. Any "heated rhetoric" certainly hasn't come from me.
Do you disagree with my assessment of their behavior? I would certainly hope that you do not think Westboro cultists merit heaven by their conduct.
Why not? You seem to think they aren't Christian by their conduct.
Well as you know no one merits heaven by their conduct, good or bad, but I was just taken aback at the confidence with which you assert any group as "hellbound".Do you disagree with my assessment of their behavior? I would certainly hope that you do not think Westboro cultists merit heaven by their conduct.
Well as you know no one merits heaven by their conduct, good or bad, but I was just taken aback at the confidence with which you assert any group as "hellbound".
The definition of Reformed theology is the Reformed confessional standards, not people on a public forum.
Sorry, but reformed theology is only defined theoricially on paper in confessional standards, the way it is defined and lived out by the reformed is the real definition
Fair enough. Just comes across in the same spirit as that which you are judging, kinda made me raise my eyebrows and say "yikes!"Paul did the same thing numerous times in his letters. I don't see a problem with calling their treachery against Christ and his gospel for what it is. If they do not repent, their fate awaits. I do not know why I should not be confident in saying that. Scripture speaks very strongly of those who profess to be believers yet blaspheme God's name by their works.
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