Modern Calvinism and predestination

[Merrill]

I am not that familiar with the current state of Calvinism, and I was wondering what the concept of "predestination" means for those practicing Calvinists these days?

Baptists and Reformed Church members are largely Calvinist correct?

What do they believe about predestination?

 

[Clare73]

I am not that familiar with the current state of Calvinism, and I was wondering what the concept of "predestination" means for those practicing Calvinists these days?

Baptists and Reformed Church members are largely Calvinist correct?

What do they believe about predestination?

What the NT teaches about predestination is that
God chose us in him before the creation of the world,
he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will (the only reason we were chosen)--Eph 1:4-5,
those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified (past tense, firmly grounded in God's purpose, as certain as if it had already happened),
God being for us, who can be against us; God having chosen us, who can bring any charge against us; God having justified us, who can condemn us,
we cannot be separated from the love of God (Ro 8:29-32), neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons (heavenly rulers), neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Ro 8:38-39).

 

[Merrill]

What the NT teaches about predestination is that
God chose us in him before the creation of the world,
he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will (the only reason we were chosen)--Eph 1:4-5,
those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified (past tense, firmly grounded in God's purpose, as certain as if it had already happened),
God being for us, who can be against us; God having chosen us, who can bring any charge against us; God having justified us, who can condemn us,
we cannot be separated from the love of God (Ro 8:29-32), neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons (heavenly rulers), neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Ro 8:38-39).

so does the charge that Calvinists believe a certain portion of the population is doomed to Hell, regardless if those people embrace the Gospel, false?

 

[Clare73]

so does the charge that Calvinists believe a certain portion of the population is doomed to Hell, regardless if those people embrace the Gospel, false?

I'm a "Paulist," not a Calvinist.
But I have never heard of those of saving faith who are doomed to hell,
however, I know of those who "embrace" the gospel but are not born again.

I can say that some who "embrace" the gospel are not born again because they are not truly in submission and obedience to God, so theirs is not a saving faith of the Holy Spirit.

 

[com7fy8]

Baptists and Reformed Church members are largely Calvinist correct?

What do they believe about predestination?

I know Baptists who believe in "free will". Ones of them will argue that "God does not send people to hell"; they say people make their own choice where they go. And they say He gives us control of the choice, so we can choose to love Him. They say we can't love God, unless we freely choose to love Him. And so there has to be free will, they say, meaning we have our own control of our decision.

But I understand there are other Baptists who believe God makes the choice of where a person goes. He "predestines" each person, where each one goes.

You can consider Romans chapter 9. Here we can read that God is our Potter. He makes each person for His purpose, as ones read this.

But there are different ideas about what this really means. If someone believes in free will, he or she is going to say this can not mean God decides what happens to people . . . even though He is our Potter.

Others might say a potter has full control of what happens to each piece of clay, and each thing made has its own special purpose.

And others will say the Potter thing goes only for how unbelieving Jews were broken away so Gentiles could become saved; but that was not at the individual level > as individuals we make our own choices; they might argue that the ones broken away already made their choice.

 

[com7fy8]

Oh, and by the way - - - people who believe in predestination are not all Calvinists. And I'll bet not all Calvinists believe the same way. After all, each of us is unique, created by God who is our Creator and not a copying machine. So, you can enjoy the adventure of getting to know each person and let each one speak for oneself.

Of course, certain ones will try to speak for others, claiming what all Calvinists or Baptists or Reformed people think.

But I find that the Bible gives us better and much more than what any official group is saying. Often, ones come to believe what they were told while they were immature. And they made idols of the ones teaching them so now they can be in very emotional denial that their worshiped leaders could be wrong or limited.

So, pray and discover. God keeps bringing us to more and better as we develop maturity and character for receiving more and better.

 

[HarleyER]

I am not that familiar with the current state of Calvinism, and I was wondering what the concept of "predestination" means for those practicing Calvinists these days?

Baptists and Reformed Church members are largely Calvinist correct?

What do they believe about predestination?

The Bible teaches that some have been elected to salvation. Calvinists are often charged with believing that others are elected to damnation but that is simply not true. Think of Reformed teaching on a continum with various views.

There are some "Calvinists" (not Calvin himself) who teach the flawed doctrine of "double predestination". In this view some are elected to salvation while others are elected to damnation. There aren't a whole lot of people who believe this that I have run into.

I'm more Calvinistic than most but not to the extreme above. In thinking about election, one has to start from the premise that all people are doomed to hell (Ephesian 2). We don't start with a blank slate. None of us does what is right, not one. So all of us have no right to assume that we should be saved. We are all evil and rebellious towards God. But because God loves us and wants to have fellowship with His creation, God, within His divine counsel and according to His will, has decided to elect some of us to salvation. It is not because of anything we have done but is totally because of God's mercy and grace that God saves us. But that raises the question why doesn't God save everyone? I don't know. All I can say is that He doesn't, it is according to His will, and He is perfectly just in not doing so. We are the clay and He is the potter.

Some Reformers (like John MacArthur) believe that while God elects people and opens their eyes, man still makes a choice to follow. How this works is a mystery but this due role is what they believe is stated in scripture. But, given the choice, this is a choice that they can't refuse. After all, who would want to reject heaven once a person understood the truth? Christ walks up to Matthew and saying "Follow Me." and Matthew dropping everything to follow Christ. Or Paul on the Damascus Road who finally see the light. I don't have a problem with this interpretation but I'm not sure it's correct.

Everyone is saved in exactly the same way. We are chosen by God and given to Christ (John 6, 10).

John 6 37 Everything that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I certainly will not cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”​

 

[St_Worm2]

so does the charge that Calvinists believe a certain portion of the population is doomed to Hell, regardless if those people embrace the Gospel, false?

Hello Merrill, while it's true that Calvinists believe that a certain portion of the population is doomed to spend eternity in Hell/the Lake of Fire, they do ~not~ believe or teach that those who have embraced the Gospel and come to true, saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ will be (doomed to Hell, that is). Instead, Calvinism teaches that ~all~ who come to saving faith are preserved (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Philippians 1:6; John 10:27-28) in the faith by God, and that they will therefore persevere in the faith (albeit imperfectly) and then die in the faith because they are (the 5th "petal" of Calvinism's T.U.L.I.P. being the "perseverance of the saints", in point of fact).

The first part of your quote above is taught ~BY~ Calvinism, the second part is taught ~ABOUT~ Calvinism, by those who are not Calvinists (by those who, either unintentionally or intentionally, choose to misrepresent what Calvinism actually teaches).

God bless you!!

--David

 

[bibletruths]

What the NT teaches about predestination is that
God chose us in him before the creation of the world,
he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will (the only reason we were chosen)--Eph 1:4-5,
those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified (past tense, firmly grounded in God's purpose, as certain as if it had already happened),
God being for us, who can be against us; God having chosen us, who can bring any charge against us; God having justified us, who can condemn us,
we cannot be separated from the love of God (Ro 8:29-32), neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons (heavenly rulers), neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Ro 8:38-39).

"As certain as if it had already happened"

This places God in the realm of time. He is (for the lack of being able to conceptualize eternity) as present at the back of eternity as He is the front of eternity and every moment in-between. Even if God chooses one at their moment of conversion/belief, to Him, it still happened before time, before that person ever existed.

God is not a respecter of persons, He doesn't play favorites, and He can certainly graft one in or out based on their belief or lack thereof.