Misconceptions about Catholic Teaching

[papist1]

I am a convert to the Catholic Church from anti Catholic protestant churches(18 of them).

If there is one thing that I found in the "bible churches" which i attended, it was that there were many preconveived notions as to what the Catholic Church taught and practiced.

As I have discussed the Catholic faith over the past ten years in rooms such as these, it seems that the root of our differences is usually found in the misconcapetions that non catholics have concerning the teachings of the Church. Usually what i have found, is that persons in these rooms have received information about the Catholic church and the Teachings of the Catholic Church from secondhand sources. This would be akin to me receiving everything I want to know about the constitution of the United States, from someone's interpretation of it on the internet. Until I have actually read the constitution, I would have no real point of reference.

The same could be said for the teachings of the Church, if one does not actually read them for themselves, then they will never know what the Church actually teaches on any matter. this would leave the person truly uninformed on the matter, just as in the case of the constitution.

Please, before making slanderous and misleading statements concerning any faith in these rooms, go and read the firsthand teachings instead of caused much havoc by taking a secondhand source as a first hand source.

peace to you, p

 

[bbbbbbb]

I am somewhat bemused by the fact that no reference was provided for us unenlightened folks to read. So, here 'tis - English Translation of the Catechism of the Catholic Church with Search Utility This is the mother lode of Catholic teaching. However, be not surprised if Catholics insist on doctrines that are not to be found there. I spent most of my life absorbing Catholic teaching from Catholics.

 

[Fenstermacher]

Yes, a lot of what Protestants believe about your church is wrong.

But a lot of it is right too.

And again, a lot of what Catholics say about Protestants is wrong.

 

[papist1]

Yes, a lot of what Protestants believe about your church is wrong.

But a lot of it is right too.

And again, a lot of what Catholics say about Protestants is wrong.

I appreciate your thoughts. When you say "but a lot of it is right too", that is an assumption. I have met some of the most learned men and women who think they have a grasp of a teaching, yet are no where near spot on.

The Catholic faith and the protestant religion cannot be compared realistically. The reason for this, is that there are measurements of Unity when it comes to faiths claiming Christ. There is a unity of which all believers in the particulr religion believe the exact same thing, in all areas, unanimously. No religion can claim this.

The second, extrinsic unity, of which a particular creed (one creed)is made known and expected to be followed by all. The Catholic Church has this and has always had this. The protestant churches have many creeds and many churches in the protestant realms have no creed at all. This would certainly give the Catholic Church an advantage of unity and common belief system in every age.

The third is intrinsic unity, which is to say that the church has been given the ability by the power of God to enforce its creed among said members, to the point of excommunication when heresy persists. The Catholic church has this power given by god as seen in Matth 18:16-20 and if he fails to hear the church, he is to become as a heathen and a publican(anathema,excommunicated). The protestant church was never given this authority, as the protestant church was instituted by Martin luther in the early 16th century, and not by Jesus Christ. Plus the fact that the protestant church in general does not have either extrinxsic or intrinsic unity.

The fourth is supernatural unity.

Without extrinsic or intrinsic unity, to clarify teachings passed down from the apostles and Jesus himself from the first century a.d. any church seperate from this first church does not have the authority to calim infallibility on any subject of the Christian faith, because it always falls back on their own man made traditions and not on the Tradition of the apostles handed down both orally and in writing(2 thess 2:15)

peace, papist

 

[papist1]

Yes, a lot of what Protestants believe about your church is wrong.

But a lot of it is right too.

And again, a lot of what Catholics say about Protestants is wrong.

I do not understand how you can claim that what Catholics say about protestants is wrong. You could say almost anything about protestantism and be right because that is how broad the spectrum is of actual beliefs and teachings of protestant churches throughout the world.

Protestants as a whole do not have any unity in belief whatsoever, no common creed, no common worship method, and they don't even believe what their founders believed and taught, while still naming their churches after those mere men.

You see, all catholic churches in union with Rome must adhere to the same set of teachings, the same teachings passed down from Jesus and the apostles themselves. The church must have unity in worship and liturgy also. The church also has the power to enforce this. The same power seen in Matt 18:16-20

BTW, which church do you think is "THE" protestant church, out of the thousands of them all teaching different and contradicting things on the same subjects? I mean, there must be a protestant church you are referring to when you say that catholics are wrong in what they say about said church. Which of the over 33,000 protestant religions that has been made by man in the last 480 years are you referring to?

I look forward to your thoughts.

Peace, papist

 

[jamesMarion]

Hello
Is the link provided by bbbbbbb an acceptable source for information about the Catholic Church? (It looks pretty good to me.) That is it acceptable to papst1; the original poster?

 

[Dark_Lite]

Hello
Is the link provided by bbbbbbb an acceptable source for information about the Catholic Church? (It looks pretty good to me.) That is it acceptable to papst1; the original poster?

That is the Catechism online. Perfectly legit. Of course, make sure you read it in context and all that. Cherry-picking paragraphs is a bad idea--though I've found that most of them stand on their own. The only ones that don't are a few of the Marian ones (mostly the co-redemptrix parts).

 

[Husky7]

I am a convert to the Catholic Church from anti Catholic protestant churches(18 of them).

If there is one thing that I found in the "bible churches" which i attended, it was that there were many preconveived notions as to what the Catholic Church taught and practiced.

As I have discussed the Catholic faith over the past ten years in rooms such as these, it seems that the root of our differences is usually found in the misconcapetions that non catholics have concerning the teachings of the Church. Usually what i have found, is that persons in these rooms have received information about the Catholic church and the Teachings of the Catholic Church from secondhand sources. This would be akin to me receiving everything I want to know about the constitution of the United States, from someone's interpretation of it on the internet. Until I have actually read the constitution, I would have no real point of reference.

The same could be said for the teachings of the Church, if one does not actually read them for themselves, then they will never know what the Church actually teaches on any matter. this would leave the person truly uninformed on the matter, just as in the case of the constitution.

Please, before making slanderous and misleading statements concerning any faith in these rooms, go and read the firsthand teachings instead of caused much havoc by taking a secondhand source as a first hand source.

peace to you, p

Any church that isn't Catholic is so called "anti-catholic."

 

[ebia]

That is the Catechism online. Perfectly legit. Of course, make sure you read it in context and all that. Cherry-picking paragraphs is a bad idea--though I've found that most of them stand on their own. The only ones that don't are a few of the Marian ones (mostly the co-redemptrix parts).

And it won't necessarly tell you how that paragraph is understood in current Catholic thinking from the top down. Any worthwhile faith has complexity, subtlety and nuance that doesn't translate well into a finite set of abstract statements - whether that be Catholic catechism or a protestant confession.

 

[ebia]

I do not understand how you can claim that what Catholics say about protestants is wrong. You could say almost anything about protestantism and be right because that is how broad the spectrum is of actual beliefs and teachings of protestant churches throughout the world.

That's true to a point, but what you often see is "protestants believe..." followed by the lowest form of something, which is just as effectively misrepresentation as "Catholics believe..." followed by an understanding only held by uneducated Catholics.

What we need - and I hope what you are calling for - is real constructive diolog that explores what others believe, listens to them, and asks why. Or, better still, here's a passage of scripture - let's talk about it. Not neverending renactments of the same old battles.

 

[Dark_Lite]

Any church that isn't Catholic is so called "anti-catholic."

No, only the ones that make a business of perpetuating ignorance and hatred (excuse me, "love") against the Catholic Church. One can disagree with an organization and not be anti- that organization. Anti-Catholics, or anti-anything really, are people who willfully remain ignorant about that to which they are opposed and have a subconscious (or sometimes conscious) hatred that everyone but themselves can see. It's the exact same thing with racists or other groups of ... ill-informed people.

And it won't necessarly tell you how that paragraph is understood in current Catholic thinking from the top down. Any worthwhile faith has complexity, subtlety and nuance that doesn't translate well into a finite set of abstract statements - whether that be Catholic catechism or a protestant confession.

The Catechism is the summary of the Catholic Church. It is a massively long summary, but when you consider that the documents it quotes from are much much longer you begin to appreciate that it's a summary.

 

[ebia]

The Catechism is the summary of the Catholic Church. It is a massively long summary, but when you consider that the documents it quotes from are much much longer you begin to appreciate that it's a summary.

Indeed. I'm not a big fan of the whole idea, but that's a tangent.

 

[Mr Dave]

there were many preconveived notions as to what the Catholic Church taught and practiced.

This bugs me too. I don't agree with everything the RCC teaches (hence I'm not one ) but I get annoyed when people insist the the RCC teaches x, y, or z when it really doesn't. I must admit that yesterday I ended up in a "discussion" on here with someone about RC teaching on Justification. I kept quoting from the Catechism but my co-debater kept insisting that I wasn't accurately representing RC teaching and that its actual beliefs were different (giving no support for such claims whatsoever). For some people, quoting directly from the official teachings doesn't count as representative of RC teaching. Rant over.

 

[winsome]

And it won't necessarly tell you how that paragraph is understood in current Catholic thinking from the top down. Any worthwhile faith has complexity, subtlety and nuance that doesn't translate well into a finite set of abstract statements - whether that be Catholic catechism or a protestant confession.

Good point. I would also add that the same words can be used with different meanings by Catholics and Protestants (e.g. righteousness and faith). So reading a Catholic doctrine with a Protestant understanding of the terminology used will lead to misunderstandings.

 

[Hairy Tic]

And it won't necessarly tell you how that paragraph is understood in current Catholic thinking from the top down. Any worthwhile faith has complexity, subtlety and nuance that doesn't translate well into a finite set of abstract statements - whether that be Catholic catechism or a protestant confession.

## Unfortunately, a lot of people don't want subtlety or nuance - & usually they dress up their dislike of these in mis-understood Bible verses cribbed from the "KJV".

The theology of the Reformers would not have lasted 10 minutes if they had been as opposed to "complexity, subtlety and nuance" as some of their descendants are. The US is good at science - but it has not produced many outstanding theologians. The Old World, OTOH, has produced legions of them. Maybe, in 500 years' time...

Now back to your advertised programme...
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