Miscarriages: God's abortions?

[Washington]

I'm posting the following in this forum because it appears that some folk consider induced abortions to be wrong. But when looked at in light of god's actions I think you will have to concur that they are nothing of the sort.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Spontaneous abortion (also known as miscarriage) is the expulsion of an embryo or fetus due to accidental trauma or natural causes.

Between 10% and 50% of pregnancies end in clinically apparent miscarriage, depending upon the age and health of the pregnant woman.
In women ages 15 to 35, the incidence of miscarriage is between 10% and 12%.
In women ages 35 to 39, the incidence of miscarriage is 18%.
In women ages 40 to 44, the incidence of miscarriage is 33%.
In women ages 45-plus, the incidence of miscarriage is greater than 50%

source


Using these figures the average percentage of miscarriages for the 40 year span (15-55) is 24. which means that 24 out of every 100 pregnancies ends up as a miscarriage. Nearly one out of every four.

Now, in 2002 there were 4,021,726 live births in the USA.

source


In the same year there were about 1,073, 000 induced abortions (I took an average of the two reported figures)

source


So, combining these two figures we get 5,094,726 real and possible live births. In as much as these represent 76 percent (100-24) of all pregnancies, the number of miscarriages in the USA in 2002 works to be 1,608,860

So, god saw fit to see that in the US of A 1,608,860 human embryos or fetuses would be destroyed that year. OR 535,860 (33%) more than those purposely induced by man.

And, of course, in less advanced societies the miscarriage rate is significantly much higher. Probably putting the number of god induced abortions world wide closer to 50% of all pregnancies.

<staff edit>

 

[sk8Joyful]

this from CF-rules:
Promotion and Proselytizing
You will not promote or proselytize beliefs, or religions, other than Christianity.
and
Blasphemy: "insults or derogatory remarks about God or Christianity will be promptly removed."
---
Calling GOD an "abortionist" re His beloved unborn children, is blatant mockery as the OP knows.

 

[Sitswithamouse]

I think the OP has a valid point.

 

[keith99]

I'm posting the following in this forum because it appears that some folk consider induced abortions to be wrong. But when looked at in light of god's actions I think you will have to concur that they are nothing of the sort.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Spontaneous abortion (also known as miscarriage) is the expulsion of an embryo or fetus due to accidental trauma or natural causes.

Between 10% and 50% of pregnancies end in clinically apparent miscarriage, depending upon the age and health of the pregnant woman.
In women ages 15 to 35, the incidence of miscarriage is between 10% and 12%.
In women ages 35 to 39, the incidence of miscarriage is 18%.
In women ages 40 to 44, the incidence of miscarriage is 33%.
In women ages 45-plus, the incidence of miscarriage is greater than 50%

source


Using these figures the average percentage of miscarriages for the 40 year span (15-55) is 24. which means that 24 out of every 100 pregnancies ends up as a miscarriage. Nearly one out of every four.

Now, in 2002 there were 4,021,726 live births

source


In the same year there were about 1,073, 000 induced abortions (I took an average of the two reported figures)

source


So, combining these two figures we get 5,094,726 real and possible live births. In as much as these represent 76 percent (100-24) of all pregnancies, the number of miscarriages in the USA in 2002 works to be 1,608,860

So, god saw fit to see that in the US of A 1,608,860 human embryos or fetuses would be destroyed that year. OR 535,860 (33%) more than those purposely induced by man.

And, of course, in less advanced societies the miscarriage rate is significantly much higher. Probably putting the number of god induced abortions world wide closer to 50% of all pregnancies.

<staff edit>

Just pointing out that if one holds to the line that at the point of fertilization that there is a human being then your numbers are on the low side, perhaps by as much as an order of magnatude. Embrios that never attach or other wise abort in the first few weeks are often not clinically apparent.

 

[Washington]

this from CF-rules:
Promotion and Proselytizing
You will not promote or proselytize beliefs, or religions, other than Christianity.

I'm sorry that the facts of the matter disturb you and that the term "abortionist" in regard to god is too difficult to deal with, but the fact remains: according to Christian theology god made humans the way they are, so he is ultimately responsible for their physical condition, which in some includes spontaneous abortions. This is no more "promoting or proselytizing beliefs, or religions, other than Christianity" than would be the fact that god created humans as meat eaters. Humans eat meat and they spontaneously abort. God is a carnivore creator and an abortion creator. I don't know what you would call an entity who creates carnivores, but someone who is reponsible for an abortion is typically called an abortionist.

Blasphemy: "insults or derogatory remarks about God or Christianity will be promptly removed."
---
Calling GOD an "abortionist" re His beloved unborn children, is blatant mockery as the OP knows.

Hey, it's your god who is ultimately responsible for spontaneous abortions. He certainly could have created humans free of spontaneous abortions, but he chose not to. That you see this as an insult to and a mockery of god is up to you, but the fact still remains: this was your god's choice.

Just pointing out that if one holds to the line that at the point of fertilization that there is a human being then your numbers are on the low side, perhaps by as much as an order of magnatude. Embrios that never attach or other wise abort in the first few weeks are often not clinically apparent.

Absolutely. It's a point that is purposely avoided by anti-abortionists.

 

[PassionFruit]

this from CF-rules:
Promotion and Proselytizing
You will not promote or proselytize beliefs, or religions, other than Christianity.
and
Blasphemy: "insults or derogatory remarks about God or Christianity will be promptly removed."
---
Calling GOD an "abortionist" re His beloved unborn children, is blatant mockery as the OP knows.

The OP didn't break any rules.

 

[stan1980]

I wish God was a bit nicer. All these abortions, killings, disease, famine and so on.

 

[sk8Joyful]

according to Christian theology, god made humans

true.

the way they are, so he is ultimately responsible for their physical condition

Yes, GOD designed & created us humans, to structure & function healthy & happy to Praise, honor & glorify Him.

When humans (against His above Intent) choose to 'structure & function' to the point of suffering..., they remain
ultimately respons-ible, and via different choices respons-able.

 

[Nazzul]

true.


Yes, GOD designed & created us humans, to structure & function healthy & happy to Praise, honor & glorify Him.

When humans (against His above Intent) choose to 'structure & function' to the point of suffering..., they remain
ultimately respons-ible, and via different choices respons-able.

So are you saying that it is either the fault of the fetus or the mother when god creates a miscarrige for them?

 

[lawtonfogle]

So are you saying that it is either the fault of the fetus or the mother to have god create a miscarrige for them?

Wow, when we outlaw abortion, the supply of women will drop hard. May even get like prison, where guys turn to having sex with other guys... either that or the majority of women will be those who haven't hit puberty, and thus sex with them will become legal again... especially since the only form of acceptable birth control will be condoms, and we all know they fail all of the time.

Wow...

ban abortion > (increase in homosexuality * child sex)


Who would have thought?

 

[Nazzul]

Wow, when we outlaw abortion, the supply of women will drop hard. May even get like prison, where guys turn to having sex with other guys... either that or the majority of women will be those who haven't hit puberty, and thus sex with them will become legal again... especially since the only form of acceptable birth control will be condoms, and we all know they fail all of the time.

Wow...

ban abortion > (increase in homosexuality * child sex)


Who would have thought?

What the heck are you talking about?

 

[stan1980]

So are you saying that it is either the fault of the fetus or the mother when god creates a miscarrige for them?

I would love to see an answer on this. Unfortunately you'll get some cop out of a response, like, "you can't question God's will on these matters" or something equally as absurd.

 

[Funny Fundie]

Abortion is well-known to be a kind of murder. The miscarriage, on the other hand, is not. Let God's will in this matter be unknown, and let the abortionist's will and motive be well-known.
When the procedure is done because of a mal-formation in the womb, we can't question it, because doing so makes us question the will of God himself. But when a vacuum cleaner is used by a clinician to remove a healthy unborn baby out of the sake of convenience or unfitness, let it be known that this is the same route some unsavory, unscrupulous dictators used in ethnic cleansing pogroms, and is therefore a form of murder.

 

[stan1980]

Abortion is well-known to be a kind of murder. The miscarriage, on the other hand, is not. Let God's will in this matter be unknown, and let the abortionist's will and motive be well-known.
When the procedure is done because of a mal-formation in the womb, we can't question it, because doing so makes us question the will of God himself. But when a vacuum cleaner is used by a clinician to remove a healthy unborn baby out of the sake of convenience or unfitness, let it be known that this is the same route some unsavory, unscrupulous dictators used in ethnic cleansing pogroms, and is therefore a form of murder.

So when God does it is is okay, but for anyone else, not so okay. Why is God beyond question?

 

[Nazzul]

I would love to see an answer on this. Unfortunately you'll get some cop out of a response, like, "you can't question God's will on these matters" or something equally as absurd.

Abortion is well-known to be a kind of murder. The miscarriage, on the other hand, is not. Let God's will in this matter be unknown, and let the abortionist's will and motive be well-known.
When the procedure is done because of a mal-formation in the womb, we can't question it, because doing so makes us question the will of God himself. But when a vacuum cleaner is used by a clinician to remove a healthy unborn baby out of the sake of convenience or unfitness, let it be known that this is the same route some unsavory, unscrupulous dictators used in ethnic cleansing pogroms, and is therefore a form of murder.

Maybe this is getting a bit off topic but why can't we question gods will? What if the mothers life is threatend if they dont have an abortion is it still wrong?

 

[sk8Joyful]

So are you saying
that it is either the fault of the fetus or the mother when god creates a miscarrige for them?

GOD, for the most part, doesn't create miscarriages.

First eliminate 'fault', in reading again what I said.

Then when you really want to learn, ask questions.

 

[sealacamp]

I'm posting the following in this forum because it appears that some folk consider induced abortions to be wrong. But when looked at in light of god's actions I think you will have to concur that they are nothing of the sort.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Spontaneous abortion (also known as miscarriage) is the expulsion of an embryo or fetus due to accidental trauma or natural causes.

Between 10% and 50% of pregnancies end in clinically apparent miscarriage, depending upon the age and health of the pregnant woman.
In women ages 15 to 35, the incidence of miscarriage is between 10% and 12%.
In women ages 35 to 39, the incidence of miscarriage is 18%.
In women ages 40 to 44, the incidence of miscarriage is 33%.
In women ages 45-plus, the incidence of miscarriage is greater than 50%

source


Using these figures the average percentage of miscarriages for the 40 year span (15-55) is 24. which means that 24 out of every 100 pregnancies ends up as a miscarriage. Nearly one out of every four.

Now, in 2002 there were 4,021,726 live births in the USA.

source


In the same year there were about 1,073, 000 induced abortions (I took an average of the two reported figures)

source


So, combining these two figures we get 5,094,726 real and possible live births. In as much as these represent 76 percent (100-24) of all pregnancies, the number of miscarriages in the USA in 2002 works to be 1,608,860

So, god saw fit to see that in the US of A 1,608,860 human embryos or fetuses would be destroyed that year. OR 535,860 (33%) more than those purposely induced by man.

And, of course, in less advanced societies the miscarriage rate is significantly much higher. Probably putting the number of god induced abortions world wide closer to 50% of all pregnancies.

<staff edit>

What God does is Gods business and Gods responsibility. You may question God be he is beyond us and He does not have to answer to any of us.

What we do is our responsibility until we enter the arena God has set aside for Himself. How arrogant it is to compare human induced killing of any kind, to anything that God does. There is no comparison at all and that makes your premise moot, incorrect, and completely outlandish.

One day we will all have to answer to God but He will never answer to us. Maybe you'll get it one day but for now it seems you have erred.

I would love to see an answer on this. Unfortunately you'll get some cop out of a response, like, "you can't question God's will on these matters" or something equally as absurd.

There is nothing absurd about such a premise. What is absurd is to come to a Christian site and try to dissuade everyone of the existence of God as well as bring secular mores here that have no bearing or relevance to God, His word, or what God says is correct. If you have a beef with what God has stated in His word or through His people I suggest you take it up with Him. Perhaps He will have a change of heart just for you.

What if the mothers life is threatend if they dont have an abortion is it still wrong?

That is not the premise on which you started this thread. Please make up your mind.

Sealacamp

 

[stan1980]

GOD doesn't create miscarriages.

First eliminate 'fault', in reading again what I said.

Then when you really want to learn, ask questions.

God told me she does create miscarriages.

 

[Washington]

Abortion is well-known to be a kind of murder.

You do understand do you not that "murder" is a legal term, and that unless an act is legal deemed to be murder it does not merit the appellation? But I understand the rhetoric ladened landscape in which you dwell, where any deprecating term is up for grabs if it can further your perspective, regardless of its applicability.

Let God's will in this matter be unknown, and let the abortionist's will and motive be well-known.

Ah, isn't that convenient. When it suits the fundie's needs he won't hesitate to tell us what god has in mind, but when such a tactic may be embarrassing it's a whole other matter: we should not know what god has in mind. Give me a break, silly man!

 

[Washington]

GOD doesn't create miscarriages.

But you just got done saying that, "GOD designed & created us humans, to structure & function healthy & happy to Praise, honor & glorify Him," which, considering our far from perfect nature, seems to indicate god's notion of "healthy & happy" is far different than ours. In any case, in as much as you concede god created us, it naturally follows that our propensity to spontaneous abort is something he bestowed on us. We have eyes because god made us that way. We process food because god made us that way. We cough because god made us that way. And we spontaneously abort embryos and fetuses because god made us that way. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways just because it might go against your morals.

What God does is Gods business and Gods responsibility. You may question God be he is beyond us and He does not have to answer to any of us.

Did I even suggest such a thing? So why are you bringing it up? *Sheesh!*

What we do is our responsibility until we enter the arena God has set aside for Himself. How arrogant it is to compare human induced killing of any kind, to anything that God does.

Because according to Christian theology, "For this God is our God for ever and ever: he will be our guide even to death." (Psalm 48:14). And: "The believer who is following God's example occupies the first chair.." And, " CHRISTIANS MUST LEARN TO FOLLOW GOD'S EXAMPLE."
Seems others disagree with you.

There is no comparison at all and that makes your premise moot, incorrect, and completely outlandish.

Sure there is. God created women so that some will abort. Why? Why waste a human embryo or fetus? If an embryo or fetus is so meaningless to god why should should it be any less so to we mere mortals?

One day we will all have to answer to God but He will never answer to us. Maybe you'll get it one day but for now it seems you have erred.

And again you seem to still be off track. Please try reading what I wrote rather than what you think I wrote or wish I did.