Mirrors on the moon

abysmul · Aug 1, 2018

I assumed most of us realized that 25th really wasn't the day...

Dave-W · Aug 1, 2018

Rachel Rachel said:
. The only importance to me is that it's just more verification that December 25th is not Yeshua's birthday.

Yeah - The only issue to settle was whether it was during Chag haMatzot or Sukkot.

I have heard fairly convincing arguments both ways.

AbbaLove · Aug 1, 2018

Dave-W said:
Yeah - The only issue to settle was whether it was during Chag haMatzot or Sukkot.

I have heard fairly convincing arguments both ways.

Chag haMatzot (Feast of Unleavened Bread) ... not likely
Sukkot ... aren't all males (e.g. Joseph) to be in/near Jerusalem

Wouldn't Rosh Hashanah (Yom Teruah ~ Day of Trumpets ~ 1st of Tishrei) be more likely for Yeshua's day of birth? In 2019, Yom Teruah begins on September 29th at sundown.

Rachel Rachel · Aug 1, 2018

AbbaLove said:
Chag haMatzot (Feast of Unleavened Bread) ... not likely
Sukkot ... aren't all males (e.g. Joseph) to be in/near Jerusalem

Wouldn't Rosh Hashanah (Yom Teruah ~ Day of Trumpets ~ 1st of Tishrei) be more likely for Yeshua's day of birth? In 2019, Yom Teruah begins on September 29th at sundown.

Yes, that was one of Michael Rood's arguments as to the date of Yeshua's birth in addition to the lunar orbit.
I've learned a lot from watching his YouTube series The Chronological Gospels.

pinacled · Aug 1, 2018

Rachel Rachel said:
Now that I have your attention...

No really....tell me what you think about this.
According to Michael Rood, the fact that mirrors have been put on the moon and scientists were able to aim lasers at them, enabling them to calculate the moon's orbits with incredible precision, we can now know for a fact that Yeshua's birth date was September 29th...during Sukkot, as most Hebrew Roots people have always claimed.
According to him, they can calculate the dates of all previous Biblical Feasts.

nope,
for one,
lasers don't need a mirror to measure the moon's orbit.
two,
I Highly doubt Yeshua was born during the thrd High Holy day.

And three for fun.
Have you ever heard of the tradition of Moshe dying the on the same calendar day he was born?

interesting teeth you have their!

JackRT · Aug 1, 2018

Dionysius Exigius (aka Dennis the Short), a monk from Russia who died about 544, was asked by Pope John I to set out the dates for Easter from the years 527 to 626. It seems that the Pope was keen to produce some order in the celebration of Easter. Dionysius decided to begin with what he considered to be the year of Jesus' birth. He chose the year in which Rome had been founded and determined, from the evidence known to him, that Jesus had been born 753 years later. He did have an error in that because one emperor changed his name during his reign, Dionysius counted him twice.

He was almost certainly acquainted with a suggestion by Hippolytus (170–236) that the date of Jesus' birth was December 25, but the trouble was that Hippolytus had not backed up this claim with sound arguments. Dionysius, however, had just the argument: His contemporaries claimed that God created the earth on March 25. It was inconceivable that the son of God could have been in any way imperfect. Therefore Jesus must have been conceived on March 25. This meant that he must have been born nine months later—December 25. Dionysius also concluded that, as a perfect being, Jesus could not have lived an incomplete life so he must have died on March 25 as well!

December 25 was an auspicious choice. In 274, in Rome, the Emperor Aurelian declared December 25 a civic holiday in celebration of the birth of Mithras, the sun god. By 336, in that same city, Christians countered by celebrating the birth of Jesus, the son of God, on December 25. Christians in Antioch in 375 celebrated the birth of Jesus on January 6. Christians in Alexandria did not begin to celebrate Christmas at all until 430. So until Dionysius came along there was confusion over dates, and debates raged, even over the usefulness of celebrating the birth of Jesus at all. What had been universally important for all Christians—the pre-eminent event—was the celebration of Easter.

When, in 527, he formalized the date of Jesus' birth, Dionysius put Christmas on the map. Jesus was born, he declared, on December 25 in the Roman year 753. Dionysius then suspended time for a few days, declaring January 1, 754—New Year's day in Rome—as the first year in a new era of world history.

With a stroke of ingenuity Dionysius had managed to shift the attention of the church from Easter to Christmas. From this point in time it seemed only logical to celebrate the birth of Jesus before his death. If Jesus' death by crucifixion had made possible salvation for all people everywhere, so the argument went, then his birth was the sign that God was identifying with human kind by taking human form.

But Dionysius made a mistake in his calculations. Perhaps he had never read the gospel account of the birth of Jesus. In Matthew Jesus is said to have been born while Herod was still King (2:1). That would translate into 4 BC (or even earlier) according to the calculations of Dionysius. As a consequence, for Christians the year 2000 is not two thousand years after the birth of Jesus, but more like 2004.

That was not his only mistake. Dionysius followed the convention of his times and, as the Roman calendar moved from the year 753 to 754, he called the latter "year one" of the New World order—anno domini, the year of our Lord. The concept of naught (zero) didn't come into Europe from Arabia and India until about two hundred years later. As a result, centuries end with naught and begin with the digit one. So for us the year 2000 was the end of one millennium but it was not the beginning of the next: that occurred in 2001.

Later, when Pope Gregory tidied up the calendar on 24 February 1582, the calendar lost eleven days. To synchronise the calendar of Dionysius with the movement of the sun, October 4 became October 15, and to avoid having to make further adjustments a leap year was introduced. Pope Gregory must also have known of the mistakes made by Dionysius but all he did was to confirm them, perhaps hoping that no one would notice.

There is one other problem. Bishop Ussher (1581–1656) worked out the precise year of creation as 4004 BC (he knew about Dionysisus getting the date of Jesus birth wrong). But he also advanced the view that the earth had a total life span of six thousand years. In order to come up with this conclusion he based his calculations on all the generations mentioned in the Bible.

In reality we do not know when Jesus was born—neither the year, the month, nor the day. The chronology of our western calendar is based on mythology masquerading as theology. We do well to treat it all with the humour it deserves.

visionary · Aug 1, 2018

JackRT said:
Dionysius Exigius (aka Dennis the Short), a monk from Russia who died about 544, was asked by Pope John I to set out the dates for Easter from the years 527 to 626. It seems that the Pope was keen to produce some order in the celebration of Easter. Dionysius decided to begin with what he considered to be the year of Jesus' birth. He chose the year in which Rome had been founded and determined, from the evidence known to him, that Jesus had been born 753 years later. He did have an error in that because one emperor changed his name during his reign, Dionysius counted him twice.

He was almost certainly acquainted with a suggestion by Hippolytus (170–236) that the date of Jesus' birth was December 25, but the trouble was that Hippolytus had not backed up this claim with sound arguments. Dionysius, however, had just the argument: His contemporaries claimed that God created the earth on March 25. It was inconceivable that the son of God could have been in any way imperfect. Therefore Jesus must have been conceived on March 25. This meant that he must have been born nine months later—December 25. Dionysius also concluded that, as a perfect being, Jesus could not have lived an incomplete life so he must have died on March 25 as well!

December 25 was an auspicious choice. In 274, in Rome, the Emperor Aurelian declared December 25 a civic holiday in celebration of the birth of Mithras, the sun god. By 336, in that same city, Christians countered by celebrating the birth of Jesus, the son of God, on December 25. Christians in Antioch in 375 celebrated the birth of Jesus on January 6. Christians in Alexandria did not begin to celebrate Christmas at all until 430. So until Dionysius came along there was confusion over dates, and debates raged, even over the usefulness of celebrating the birth of Jesus at all. What had been universally important for all Christians—the pre-eminent event—was the celebration of Easter.

When, in 527, he formalized the date of Jesus' birth, Dionysius put Christmas on the map. Jesus was born, he declared, on December 25 in the Roman year 753. Dionysius then suspended time for a few days, declaring January 1, 754—New Year's day in Rome—as the first year in a new era of world history.

With a stroke of ingenuity Dionysius had managed to shift the attention of the church from Easter to Christmas. From this point in time it seemed only logical to celebrate the birth of Jesus before his death. If Jesus' death by crucifixion had made possible salvation for all people everywhere, so the argument went, then his birth was the sign that God was identifying with human kind by taking human form.

But Dionysius made a mistake in his calculations. Perhaps he had never read the gospel account of the birth of Jesus. In Matthew Jesus is said to have been born while Herod was still King (2:1). That would translate into 4 BC (or even earlier) according to the calculations of Dionysius. As a consequence, for Christians the year 2000 is not two thousand years after the birth of Jesus, but more like 2004.

That was not his only mistake. Dionysius followed the convention of his times and, as the Roman calendar moved from the year 753 to 754, he called the latter "year one" of the New World order—anno domini, the year of our Lord. The concept of naught (zero) didn't come into Europe from Arabia and India until about two hundred years later. As a result, centuries end with naught and begin with the digit one. So for us the year 2000 was the end of one millennium but it was not the beginning of the next: that occurred in 2001.

Later, when Pope Gregory tidied up the calendar on 24 February 1582, the calendar lost eleven days. To synchronise the calendar of Dionysius with the movement of the sun, October 4 became October 15, and to avoid having to make further adjustments a leap year was introduced. Pope Gregory must also have known of the mistakes made by Dionysius but all he did was to confirm them, perhaps hoping that no one would notice.

There is one other problem. Bishop Ussher (1581–1656) worked out the precise year of creation as 4004 BC (he knew about Dionysisus getting the date of Jesus birth wrong). But he also advanced the view that the earth had a total life span of six thousand years. In order to come up with this conclusion he based his calculations on all the generations mentioned in the Bible.

In reality we do not know when Jesus was born—neither the year, the month, nor the day. The chronology of our western calendar is based on mythology masquerading as theology. We do well to treat it all with the humour it deserves.

Their error stemmed from starting out without scripture or Jewish calendar understanding or the feasts themselves.

pinacled · Aug 1, 2018

Rachel Rachel said:
Now that I have your attention...

No really....tell me what you think about this.
According to Michael Rood, the fact that mirrors have been put on the moon and scientists were able to aim lasers at them, enabling them to calculate the moon's orbits with incredible precision, we can now know for a fact that Yeshua's birth date was September 29th...during Sukkot, as most Hebrew Roots people have always claimed.
According to him, they can calculate the dates of all previous Biblical Feasts.

If you want to know more about NASA and how mirrors and lasers are used as rudimentary form of communication.
Then go to a proper setting to discuss technolgical advancements that have aided everyone.

But in no way is this even close to being compared to a conversation about the 10 days of awe!

Besides the ever incessant obsessive assertion that Yeshua was born during the feast of tabernacles. There seems to be an ever ignorance of why The Moon is important to remember.

Something I shared recently.
If new moons and shabbat are not important.
Then why would ole sh,aul even given mention of such.?

What I find interesting about the moon, besides the current 29.53 day cycle. Not only is it a lesser light ruling the night.
It also shares the sky with the greater light a certain number of days.
What I find interesting is distance is relative to circumference. Like a number of days relevant to the fence on a roof!.
I propose the possibility that the moon has moved further away from the earth, accounting for the 1.53 slip.
perhaps this is why the put mirrors there?
To measure distance!

Seems like simple geometry to me.

But what do I know.

.Mikha'el. · Aug 1, 2018

Rachel Rachel said:
Now that I have your attention...

No really....tell me what you think about this.
According to Michael Rood, the fact that mirrors have been put on the moon and scientists were able to aim lasers at them, enabling them to calculate the moon's orbits with incredible precision, we can now know for a fact that Yeshua's birth date was September 29th...during Sukkot, as most Hebrew Roots people have always claimed.
According to him, they can calculate the dates of all previous Biblical Feasts.

I've never bought into the idea of a Sukkot birthdate. I think it's looking for parallels between His birth and the feasts that have no basis in Scripture.

Heber Book List · Aug 2, 2018

Dave-W said:
Indeed. If the exact date was all that important, it would have been recorded.

Even the tax records of the census that Rome took at His birth were destroyed when Pompeii got buried in 79 ad when Vesuvius erupted.

I suspect God does not want us to know the day.

Not being awkward but... how do you know it was destroyed.

Doctor.Sphinx · Aug 2, 2018

Rachel Rachel said:
W

Of course not but what do you suppose the lasers are bouncing off of? There were other mirrors placed there by Russian cosmonauts as well as others.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_retroreflectors_on_the_Moon

Weren't scientists bouncing lasers off the moon long before NASA ever alleged to have landed men there, or Russia ever boasted they'd sent a man into space?

Dave-W · Aug 2, 2018

Heber Book List said:
Not being awkward but... how do you know it was destroyed.

Because Pompeii was where those records were stored. Up until ...

Dave-W · Aug 2, 2018

Doctor.Sphinx said:
Weren't scientists bouncing lasers off the moon long before NASA ever alleged to have landed men there, or Russia ever boasted they'd sent a man into space?

No. The first operational laser was in 1960, Hughes labs in California. It was 2 years later that a laser could be operated outside a lab setting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser#Laser

The first experiment of aiming a laser at the moon was in 1962.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment#Overview

The first manned soviet orbital space shot was a year earlier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Soviet_manned_space_missions

Doctor.Sphinx · Aug 2, 2018

Dave-W said:
No. The first operational laser was in 1960, Hughes labs in California. It was 2 years later that a laser could be operated outside a lab setting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser#Laser

The first experiment of aiming a laser at the moon was in 1962.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment#Overview

The first manned soviet orbital space shot was a year earlier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Soviet_manned_space_missions

I stand corrected. It was radio waves that were bounced off it much earlier. Either way, lasers were bouncing off the moon prior to the first moon landing, and therefore, prior to the mirrors pupportedly placed to reflect them.

JackRT · Aug 2, 2018

Doctor.Sphinx said:
Weren't scientists bouncing lasers off the moon long before NASA ever alleged to have landed men there, or Russia ever boasted they'd sent a man into space?

You are thinking of radar experiments I think. Powerful enough lasers did not exist at the time.

visionary · Aug 2, 2018

.Mikha'el. said:
I've never bought into the idea of a Sukkot birthdate. I think it's looking for parallels between His birth and the feasts that have no basis in Scripture.

Scriptural study to figure out approximately the time of Yeshua birth.

The first passage we will consider begins with the father of John the Baptist, Zacharias:

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. ....8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course, ... 23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house. 24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, ...

First clue given to us here is that Zacharias was of the "course" of Abia.

So we have to go to the course of the priest hood to find our next clue. King David on God's instructions (1 Chr 28:11-13) had divided the sons of Eleazar and Ithamar, the sons of Aaron, into 24 groups (1 Chr 24:1-4), to setup a schedule by which the Temple of the Lord could be staffed with priests (Kohanim) all year round in an orderly manner. After the 24 groups of priests were established, lots were drawn to determine the sequence in which each group would serve in the Temple. (1 Chr 24: 7-19). That sequence is as follows:

The 24 courses of priests
1 Chr 24:7 1. Jehoiarib 2. Jedaiah ..... 1 Chr 24:8 3. Harim 4. Seorim
1 Chr 24:9 5. Malchijah 6. Mijamin..... 1 Chr 24:10 7. Hakkoz 8. Abijah
1 Chr 24:11 9. Jeshuah 10. Shecaniah . 1 Chr 24:12 11. Eliashib 12. Jakim
1 Chr 24:13 13. Huppah 14. Jeshebeab. 1 Chr 24:14 15. Bilgah 16. Immer
1 Chr 24:15 17. Hezir 18. Aphses .........1 Chr 24:16 19. Pethahiah 20. Jehezekel
1 Chr 24:17 21. Jachim 22. Gamul ....... 1 Chr 24:18 23. Delaiah 24. Maaziah

1 Chr 24:19 These were the orderings of them in their service to come into the house of the LORD, according to their manner, under Aaron their father, as the LORD God of Israel had commanded him.

Third scriptural clue.... Now each one of the 24 "courses" of priests would begin and end their service in the Temple on the Sabbath, a tour of duty being for one week (2 Chr 23:8, 1 Chr 9:25). On three occasions during the year, all the men of Israel were required to travel to Jerusalem for festivals of the Lord, so on those occasions all the priests would be needed in the Temple to accommodate the many sacrifices offered by the crowds. Those three festivals were Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, and Tabernacles (Deut 16:16).

Fourth Scriptural clue... The Jewish calendar begins in the spring, during the month of Nisan (Est 3:7), so the first "course" of priests, would be that of the family of Jehoiarib, who would serve for the first week of Nisan, Sabbath to Sabbath. The second week would then be the responsibility of the family of Jedaiah. The third week would be the feast of Unleavened Bread, and all priests would be present for service. Then the schedule would resume with the third course of priests, the family of Harim. By this plan, when the 24th course was completed, the general cycle of courses would repeat. This schedule would cover 51 weeks or 357 days, enough for the lunar Jewish calendar (about 354 days). So, in a period of a year, each group of priests would serve in the Temple twice on their scheduled course, in addition to the 3 major festivals, for a total of about five weeks of duty.

.Mikha'el. · Aug 2, 2018

The problem as I see it with a Sukkot birthdate is that during Sukkot, everyone has to sleep outside for the festival. If everyone is sleeping outdoors, where are all of these people coming from who are overcrowding the house and forcing Miryam and the newborn Yeshua outdoors?

visionary · Aug 2, 2018

And that was just to figure our the time of John the Baptist conception, his birth and thus when Yeshua was born. Now Zacharias, the father of John the Baptist.

Luke 1:23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house. 24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, ...

Beginning with the first month, Nisan, in the spring (March-April), the schedule of the priest's courses would result with Zacharias serving during the 10th week of the year. This is because he was a member of the course of Abia (Abijah), the 8th course, and both the Feast of Unleavened Bread (15-21 Nisan) and Pentecost (6 Sivan) would have occurred before his scheduled duty. This places Zacharias' administration in the Temple as beginning on the second Sabbath of the third month, Sivan (May-June).

Having completed his Temple service on the third Sabbath of Sivan, Zacharias returned home and soon conceived his son John. So John the Baptist was probably conceived shortly after the third Sabbath of the month of Sivan.

visionary · Aug 2, 2018

Next clue is timing... Now the reason that the information about John is important, is because according to Luke, Yeshua was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the sixth month of Elisabeth's pregnancy:

Luke 1:24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying, 25 Thus hath the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men. 26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Note that verse 26 above refers to the sixth month of Elisabeth's pregnancy, not Elul, the sixth month of the Hebrew calendar, and this is made plain by the context of verse 24 and again in verse 36:

Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

Mary stayed with Elizabeth for the last 3 months of her pregnancy, until the time that John was born.

Luke 1:56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house. 57 Now Elisabeth's full time came that she should be delivered; and she brought forth a son.

Now working from the information about John's conception late in the third month, Sivan, and advancing six months, we arrive late in the 9th month of Kislev (Nov-Dec) for the time frame for the conception of Yeshua. It is notable here that the first day of the Jewish festival of Hanukkah, the Festival of Lights, is celebrated on the 25th day of Kislev, and Yeshua is called the light of the world (John 8:12, 9:5, 12:46). This does not appear to be a mere coincidence. In the book of John, Hanukkah is called the feast of dedication (John 10:22). Hanukkah is an eight day festival of rejoicing, celebrating deliverance from enemies by the relighting of the menorah in the rededicated Temple, which according to the story, stayed lit miraculously for eight days on only one day's supply of oil.

visionary · Aug 2, 2018

Based on a conception shortly after the third Sabbath of the month of Sivan, projecting forward an average term of about 10 lunar months (40 weeks), we arrive in the month of Nisan. It would appear that John the Baptist may have been born in the middle of the month, which would coincide with Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread. It is interesting to note, that even today, it is customary for the Jews to set out a special goblet of wine during the Passover Seder meal, in anticipation of the arrival of Elijah that week, which is based on the prophecy of Malachi:

Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Yeshua identified John as the "Elijah" that the Jews had expected:

Mat 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

The angel that appeared to Zacharias in the temple also indicated that John would be the expected "Elias":

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

So then, the Feast of Unleavened Bread begins on the 15th day of the 1st month, Nisan, and this is a likely date for the birth of John the Baptist, the expected "Elijah".

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Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

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