"Mini brains"

Dave-W · Nov 14, 2016

There have been numerous threads discussing the ethics and morality of animal testing of drugs, diseases, etc.

Now Johns Hopkins Univ is growing human "mini brains" to test drugs and diseases on actual human brain tissue.

Is this ethical? Moral?
Do we know for sure that these partial people do not have souls or spirits?

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news...add_to_evidence_of_zikas_toll_on_fetal_cortex

http://www.jhsph.edu/news/news-rele...ns-in-lab-to-study-neurological-diseases.html

http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/ar-alt-mini-brains.html

timewerx · Nov 14, 2016

Disease is the result of believing in the wrong things.

Birth defects is the result of parents believing in the wrong things.

Premature ageing is the result of believing in the wrong things.

There's no easy way of putting this but it's very easy to believe in the wrong things. I also believe in the wrong things. But it's no excuse that deception is all around us. Believing in the wrong things is like drinking poison.

It is certainly unethical for others to pay for things that result from believing in the wrong things.

What made Jesus immune from everything, even cure sickness, cast out evil spirits is because He did NOT believe even in one thing that is wrong.

The cure for all diseases is the Truth because real cure comes from the soul and the food of the soul is the Truth. The most dangerous poison to the soul is greed.

Hank77 · Nov 14, 2016

timewerx said:
Birth defects is the result of parents believing in the wrong things.

Jesus was asked this specific question as it related to the man born blind. He did not agree with you.

timewerx · Nov 14, 2016

Hank77 said:
Jesus was asked this specific question as it related to the man born blind. He did not agree with you.

Jesus said, "neither that man nor his parents sinned."

Was Jesus literally saying there are three people other than Him that did not sin?

And obviously, Jesus wasn't telling everything about the nature of the man's blindness which could also be explained by genetics....He only had to say one thing which is "to glorify God" which seems to be the best answer at that time.

To bring the overall context of this matter, remember about this verse:

Matthew 15:11
What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them."

It is obvious, what comes out of a man's mouth came from what he believes. If what comes out of a man defiles him, then it is obvious, he is believing in the wrong things.

The word "defile" is closely related to the word "disease". Disease also defiles a person, or makes a person unclean in some instances in the Bible.

This is also from personal experience. I haven't been sick since 2012. Not even fever nor colds since I began "unbelieving" the wrong beliefs I held. These are mostly worldly teachings like behavior towards material wealth, prosperity, etc. I have lived in a very crowded and filthy place for the last two years with multinationals, pandemics happen all the time but I never got sick. I even looked younger than the years before. A lot of things changed for the better.

Hank77 · Nov 14, 2016

timewerx said:
Was Jesus literally saying there are three people other than Him that did not sin?

You know as well as I do that He meant it the context of the question He was asked. I have read enough of what you write to know that I don't need to explain it to you.

Nithavela · Nov 14, 2016

timewerx said:
Disease is the result of believing in the wrong things.

Birth defects is the result of parents believing in the wrong things.

Premature ageing is the result of believing in the wrong things.

You should go collect your nobel prize.

Desk trauma · Nov 14, 2016

DaveW-Ohev said:
Do we know for sure that these partial people do not have souls or spirits?

A good starting place for finding that out would be proving that such a thing as a soul exists.

Gene2memE · Nov 14, 2016

Gene2memE · Nov 14, 2016

On the actual question at hand.

The 'mini brains' are collections of no more than about 20,000 cells. That means they have, at a maximum, about 0.002% of the total number of neurons in a human stomach, and about 0.000002% of the total neurons of a human brain.

I'm not thinking that there's anything like cognitive activity going on here.

I have no problem with researchers growing an artificial stomach and artificial stomach tissue - which has more neurons than these 'mini brains' - so I have no problem with growing a 'mini brain' to stop actual suffering in actual people.

timewerx · Nov 14, 2016

Hank77 said:
You know as well as I do that He meant it the context of the question He was asked. I have read enough of what you write to know that I don't need to explain it to you.

What I'm trying to say, just because Jesus did not mention something, that it would be false or Jesus would disagree. It's not always the case.

You know as well that genetics plays a huge part in birth defects. We have lots of hard evidence to back it up. It cannot be false despite Jesus not talking about it.

And also Jesus said in another instance what else would defile us which is what comes out of our mouth (which comes from beliefs we hold dear). I've already explained the close relationship of defile or made unclean with disease.

Wrong beliefs which defiles, diseases which defile. They are correlated. This can be a sensitive subject but what is really important, is it to go with the flow and have faith what you have is the truth or have faith in finding the truth no matter the cost?

Ana the Ist · Nov 16, 2016

DaveW-Ohev said:
There have been numerous threads discussing the ethics and morality of animal testing of drugs, diseases, etc.

Now Johns Hopkins Univ is growing human "mini brains" to test drugs and diseases on actual human brain tissue.

Is this ethical? Moral?
Do we know for sure that these partial people do not have souls or spirits?

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news...add_to_evidence_of_zikas_toll_on_fetal_cortex

http://www.jhsph.edu/news/news-rele...ns-in-lab-to-study-neurological-diseases.html

http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/ar-alt-mini-brains.html

We don't know for certain that regular people have souls or spirits...so it's a non Issue.

GrowingSmaller · Nov 16, 2016

Soul is "breath of God", God cant be shown to exist in materialistic science, therefore same for soul.

Dave-W · Nov 16, 2016

Ana the Ist said:
We don't know for certain that regular people have souls or spirits...so it's a non Issue.

That makes no sense.

For a while we did not know for certain that radiation could have ill effects on people. So we had ships UNDER the mushroom cloud on many early atomic and hydrogen bomb explosions.

But later we found out. Madame Curie died of cancer from radiation. People on those ships died horrible deaths. So just because we cannot now prove the existence of a soul does not mean that we do not have one. Radiation was once a non-issue. Now it is a BIG issue.
I would say the same with souls. Better safe than sorry.

Desk trauma · Nov 16, 2016

DaveW-Ohev said:
Radiation was once a non-issue. Now it is a BIG issue.
I would say the same with souls.

Radiation can be detected and demonstrated to exit. What test demonstrates that souls exist?

Better safe than sorry.

Will you agree with calls to end scientific work became it may offend the elves? Better safe than sorry after all.

Dave-W · Nov 16, 2016

Desk trauma said:
Radiation can be detected and demonstrated to exit. What test demonstrates that souls exist?

In the early 1900s radiation could not be detected either. Then they started detecting it but had no idea what it meant.

Will you agree with calls to end scientific work became it may offend the elves? Better safe than sorry after all.

Since "elves" are in all probability demons, I have no problem offending them.

Desk trauma · Nov 16, 2016

DaveW-Ohev said:
In the early 1900s radiation could not be detected either. Then they started detecting it but had no idea what it meant.

As yet we have nothing to show that such a thing a souls exist. As I said develop a test to show that demonstrates they exist then use that test find if th

DaveW-Ohev said:
Since "elves" are in all probability demons, I have no problem offending them.

Others think that they are supernatural beings who should be respected, why should your unsubstantiated religious views matter more than theirs?

jayem · Nov 16, 2016

AFAIK, not many Christians would think fruit flies have souls. Their "brains" (which might be more accurately called ganglia) consist of 100,000 or so neurons. It strains credulity that anyone would imagine that a far smaller collection of disembodied neurons possessed a soul.

Gene2memE · Nov 16, 2016

DaveW-Ohev said:
In the early 1900s radiation could not be detected either. Then they started detecting it but had no idea what it meant.

Before there was evidence for radiation, would anyone have been rationally justified in believing in the existence of such a thing?

What made us acknowledge the existence of radiation was evidence - testable, verifiable, repeatable evidence - from observed physical phenomena. Messing around with photo-luminescent crystals and bits of uranium and polonium, and such like.

If the evidence for a soul was just a hundredth as robust as that for radiation, I'd have no problem in believing that a soul exist.

Until then, I'll take this position:
I have no reason to believe souls exist, therefore I have no concerns that a tiny brain-like collection of cells could potentially posses a soul. Only if a soul can be demonstrated to exist, will I start worrying if a collection of 20,000 cells the size of a pinhead reaches whatever threshold, cognitive or otherwise, at which a soul develops.

Ana the Ist · Nov 16, 2016

DaveW-Ohev said:
That makes no sense.

For a while we did not know for certain that radiation could have ill effects on people. So we had ships UNDER the mushroom cloud on many early atomic and hydrogen bomb explosions.

But later we found out. Madame Curie died of cancer from radiation. People on those ships died horrible deaths. So just because we cannot now prove the existence of a soul does not mean that we do not have one. Radiation was once a non-issue. Now it is a BIG issue.
I would say the same with souls. Better safe than sorry.

This makes no sense.

Radiation is a real thing. Yes, it's true mankind once didn't know all of the effects that it had...but it's existence was never in doubt.

The "soul" and "spirit" aren't things that anyone has shown exist in reality. There's no evidence for them. There's no proof they exist and no detectable way in which they interact with reality.

So for you to sit there and question "oh no...what if these mini brains have souls?"...is something that sounds silly in really every respect. If you could give evidence that either a soul or spirit exist...then there might be cause for some concern. Until that time, the idea that these mini brains my have a soul is of no more consequence than asking "oh no....what if these mini brains are telepathic?"

GrowingSmaller · Nov 17, 2016

What about the grue paradox (aka Goodmas new riddle of induction).

http://www.loyno.edu/~folse/grue.html

All emeralds are green/grue. A observation of a green emerald before 2100 somehow confirms it will be a a "grue" one after 2100 (i.e. grue is a predicate meaning green before that date and blue afterwards).

Thus by analogy its agruable that all minds are conscious before death/ then eternal afterwards

So a conscious mind confirms an eternal one?

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"Mini brains"

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