Mind

bhsmte · Nov 30, 2013

Strathos said:
Spirit.

You don't have to believe it if you don't want to.

Via spiritual experiences.

I have no problem with folks stating they believe because of personal spiritual experiences and having faith that those personal experiences are right, for them. I only take issue, when folks claim anyone who doesn't share their same spiritual experience, is simply not reaching out to God and they are missing the boat.

Let me ask you this; what are your thoughts on those who believe in other Gods and the personal spiritual experiences that they have, that causes them to have faith in their own God?

juvenissun · Nov 30, 2013

Ginger123 said:
Who said anything about talking to me or learning from me?

You are a Christian for one reason and one reason only, for what you think and hope you will get out of it.
You are a Christian because you were promised an after life and for no other reason.
No promise of an after life equals no Christians, Christianity is pure selfishness.

I want to have a good after-life, at any/all cost.

If that is the definition of selfishness, then let me be selfish.

Strathos · Dec 1, 2013

Davian said:
No, define "spirit" in some manner that would differentiate it from something you are just making up to fill a gap in your explanation.

Spirit is consciousness unrestrained by physical substrate.

Circular reasoning then.

Think that if you want.

I believe we are only talking about ancient myths and characters in books.

Again, I do not see belief as a choice, but what is the alleged penalty if I don't "want" to believe in the existence of your particular deity? Why (hypothetically) would anyone "want" the alternative?

Like I said, probably very much the same thing you already believe will happen to you.

The problem with self deception is that it is very deceptive.

Again, How do you discern "spiritual experiences" from self deception? Circular reasoning? Do you care? If you don't care whether or not your "spiritual experiences" are actually exercises in self-deception, I will drop it.

I have faith.

bhsmte said:
I have no problem with folks stating they believe because of personal spiritual experiences and having faith that those personal experiences are right, for them. I only take issue, when folks claim anyone who doesn't share their same spiritual experience, is simply not reaching out to God and they are missing the boat.

Let me ask you this; what are your thoughts on those who believe in other Gods and the personal spiritual experiences that they have, that causes them to have faith in their own God?

Believe what you want...

Davian · Dec 1, 2013

Strathos said:
Spirit is consciousness unrestrained by physical substrate.

Gibberish. Tell me what it is, not what it isn't.

Strathos said:
Think that if you want.

I don't want to think that. I want to see if you demonstrate that it isn't circular reasoning. You don't seem to care.

Strathos said:
Like I said, probably very much the same thing you already believe will happen to you.

Why so evasive on that question?

Strathos said:
I have faith.

It looks like you have nothing. Suit yourself.

Strathos · Dec 2, 2013

Davian said:
Gibberish. Tell me what it is, not what it isn't.

I don't know how I can explain it any more clearly than I have.

I don't want to think that. I want to see if you demonstrate that it isn't circular reasoning. You don't seem to care.

It's like they say, to a non-believer no explanation is possible, to a believer, no explanation is necessary.

Why so evasive on that question?

I believe I answered it clearly.

It looks like you have nothing. Suit yourself.

You may consider it nothing, but I don't.

AV1611VET · Dec 2, 2013

Strathos said:
It's like they say, to a non-believer no explanation is possible, to a believer, no explanation is necessary.

Wow ... that's good!

HitchSlap · Dec 2, 2013

juvenissun said:
I want to have a good after-life, at any/all cost.

If that is the definition of selfishness, then let me be selfish.

Hate to burst your bubble guy, but there is no "after-life." There's just life, and you only get one chance.

Davian · Dec 2, 2013

Strathos said:
I don't know how I can explain it any more clearly than I have.

The use of words that you cannot define fails to explain anything.

Strathos said:
It's like they say, to a non-believer no explanation is possible, to a believer, no explanation is necessary.

And who is this "they" that says that religious claims are to get a free ride, and why do you listen to them? Because you are a believer?

Do you find circular reasoning to have value in any other aspects of your life?

Strathos said:
I believe I answered it clearly.

No, "clearly" would not be the appropriate description for that.

Strathos said:
You may consider it nothing, but I don't.

Whatever.

Davian · Dec 2, 2013

AV1611VET said:
Wow ... that's good!

And circular!

Strathos · Dec 3, 2013

AV1611VET said:
Wow ... that's good!

You haven't heard that saying before?

Davian said:
The use of words that you cannot define fails to explain anything.

Well if you keep rejecting my definitions...

And who is this "they" that says that religious claims are to get a free ride, and why do you listen to them? Because you are a believer?

Do you find circular reasoning to have value in any other aspects of your life?

I believe our philosophies are fundamentally different here. Jesus told Thomas that although he had empirical proof the Resurrection, those that believed without such proof were even more blessed. Obviously you don't subscribe to this idea, and I accept that you don't. But I do.

No, "clearly" would not be the appropriate description for that.

Ezekiel 18:20

AV1611VET · Dec 3, 2013

Strathos said:
You haven't heard that saying before?

No, I haven't.

That's pretty good!

Strathos · Dec 3, 2013

Well then, glad to be of help.

Davian · Dec 3, 2013

Strathos said:
...

Well if you keep rejecting my definitions...

What definitions? Where?

Strathos said:
I believe our philosophies are fundamentally different here. Jesus told Thomas that although he had empirical proof the Resurrection, those that believed without such proof were even more blessed. Obviously you don't subscribe to this idea, and I accept that you don't. But I do.

I don't subscribe to ideas that could simply have been fabricated to for "preaching to the choir".

Would you buy a car from a used car salesman based on that philosophy?

"Yessiree, the less you examine ours cars, the happier you will be with your purchase. I know, we don't have any cars here for you see or test drive, but I assure you that the car you are buying is better than everybody else's. Sign here."

Strathos said:
Ezekiel 18:20

I take it that, in this context, you are saying "wicked" is the equivalent of "non-believer"?

Strathos · Dec 3, 2013

Davian said:
What definitions? Where?

Here

I don't subscribe to ideas that could simply have been fabricated to for "preaching to the choir".

Would you buy a car from a used car salesman based on that philosophy?

I have nothing to lose by placing my faith in God.

I take it that, in this context, you are saying "wicked" is the equivalent of "non-believer"?

Among other things. James 2:14-17

Davian · Dec 3, 2013

Strathos said:
Here

You only told my what it isn't.

What is air?

"It isn't rock."

Strathos said:
I have nothing to lose by placing my faith in God.

Your intellectual integrity.

I asked, would you buy a car from a used car salesman based on that philosophy? Yes or no?

Strathos said:
Among other things. James 2:14-17

When all else fails, preach?

Strathos · Dec 4, 2013

Davian said:
You only told my what it isn't.

What is air?

"It isn't rock."

I said it was consciousness. Mind/intelligence, in pure form.

Your intellectual integrity.

I asked, would you buy a car from a used car salesman based on that philosophy? Yes or no?

If he offered me the car for free, and all I had to do to get it was agree it was the best car ever... (and he happened to be the person who invented cars, and the only one to have ever built them).

When all else fails, preach?

That verse says faith alone won't get you to Heaven.

Davian · Dec 4, 2013

Strathos said:
I said it was consciousness. Mind/intelligence, in pure form.

How do you get a pure form of a process? You have lost me.

Strathos said:
If he offered me the car for free, and all I had to do to get it was agree it was the best car ever... (and he happened to be the person who invented cars, and the only one to have ever built them).

The car is not free (I did say used car salesman), and you don't get to see it. He can't even show you that he has any evidence that he has any cars to sell. And, there are all of those other used car dealers on the same block making the same promises, and no cars to show. Why pick his (possibly non-existent) car? Why not the others'? I understand that many just buy at the same place that their parents bought (and you never did get to see if they got their cars).

Come to think of it, there has never been a verified case of one of these cars ever being delivered, from any of these dealers. Yet, they are still there, and the money keep rolling in, into the billions of dollars.

Strathos said:
That verse says faith alone won't get you to Heaven.

Is there any act that might preclude your entry into heaven?

Strathos · Dec 5, 2013

Davian said:
How do you get a pure form of a process? You have lost me.

It's something beyond human comprehension.

The car is not free (I did say used car salesman),

Then your analogy is inapplicable, as Christ's salvation is free.

Is there any act that might preclude your entry into heaven?

Quite a few. I don't believe Jeffrey Dahmer is in Heaven, for instance. Although I could be wrong about that. No way of knowing until (and unless) I go there myself.

Davian · Dec 5, 2013

Strathos said:
It's something beyond human comprehension.

On what do you base this assertion?

Strathos said:
Then your analogy is inapplicable, as Christ's salvation is free.

As I said, it certainly isn't, and it has all the earmarks of a hoax.

Strathos said:
Quite a few. I don't believe Jeffrey Dahmer is in Heaven, for instance. Although I could be wrong about that. No way of knowing until (and unless) I go there myself.

What, in your opinion, did Jeffrey Dahmer do that might preclude him from entering heaven, assuming he believes? What would make him as "wicked" as a non-beleiver?

sadashivan · Dec 5, 2013

Africa is a place where great souls are like born. First humans are evolved than Gandhi and Mandela born to Inspire world. Thanks Mandela you taught us to live and let live

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