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Question, if our thoughts are produced by chemical reactions in the brain, then how can we be arguing about this?
The Wikipedia article about this is actually pretty good:Interesting OP. It's my view that the mind depends on the brain but is not reducible to the brain. I've never got a clear explanation of "emergent property"? What would it mean for the mind to simply be an emergent property of the brain? Could you give an example of other emergent properties in the world?
The Wikipedia article about this is actually pretty good:
Emergence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
When simple interactions create complex systems or phenomenons, that's emergence.
What I was talking about was that the mind emerges from the reactions in our brain, i.e. that our ability to think, feel etc. emerges from the interactions of neurons in our brain. You could also say that it's caused by or located in our brain, but both formulations leave open the question of whether the mind and the brain are separate. If you ask me, they are not, and I hoped my wording made this clear.
Hope I could help you.
I recently had a discussion with another member about whether the mind and the brain are really separate entities, or whether the mind is simply an emergent property of the brain. Sadly, the debate led us nowhere, for some reason, which is why I've started this thread.
I know that this is traditionally called Mind-Body-Dualism, but I think Mind-Brain-Dualism is the more accurate term.
My view is that the the mind is simply an emergent property of the brain. The two are linked to each other, you can't remove one of them while leaving the other one intact.
The reason why I hold this view is because changes to the brain almost always correlate with changes to the mind. A few examples:
Drugs. Specifically, methamphetamine, more commonly known as crystal. It has been shown that long-time users of methamphetamine suffer from depression years after abstinence. It has also been shown, mainly in animal experiments, that methamphetamine damages serotonin-receptors in the brain. Serotonin, for those who don't know, is commonly regarded as a happiness hormone.
Lobotomies. During a lobotomy, the frontal lobe of the brain is intentionally damaged. This has been shown to make patients apathetic.
The amygdala. The amygdalas are segments of the brain, present in both hemispheres. They are linked to emotional responses, especially fear and anger. It was shown that stimulation of the amygdala correlates with feelings of fear and anger. It has also been shown that transplantation of or damage to the amygdala correlates with a decline in emotional responses, and the incapability to process emotions.
As you can see, changes to the brain correlate with changes to the mind, and they do so in a predictable pattern. Likewise, processes of the mind show up in MRIs and similar imaging techniques. The two are so strongly correlated that the majority neuroscientists agree they are causated, too.
This leaves us with the question of whether the mind influences the brain, or whether the brain causes the mind. At first glance, both options look equally valid. However, on further inspectation, it becomes apparent that the first hypothesis is the weaker one, as it leaves many questions unanswered. For example, why would the mind cause the blood flow in the brain to change? Why does a depressed mind cause damage to serotonin receptors? Why does the mind change when the brain changes? And, last but not least: Why does the mind need the brain at all? It also attributes supernatural properties to the mind, which are unfalsifiable.
In the end, I arrived at the conclusion that the mind is an emergent property of the brain. Any thoughts?
At this point, linking to individual body parts is just dumb. Imagine seeing a bear, and having your right leg kick. Completely useless.
Interesting OP. It's my view that the mind depends on the brain but is not reducible to the brain. I've never got a clear explanation of "emergent property"? What would it mean for the mind to simply be an emergent property of the brain? Could you give an example of other emergent properties in the world?
Actually, this makes a lot of sense. We have no intrinsic knowledge about how our mind works, and a lot of the things that go on within it are hidden from us, self-awareness notwithstanding.I wonder if it's even logically possible for the mind to understand itself. Obviously our minds are geared to understand how the world relates to us and how we relate to the world. Beyond that, though, it seems a bit transcendant to claim that the mind (being an object in nature) is able to understand its own nature. Am I making sense?
Blindseeing, that's what it's called, still works through the brain. The people can see, but they are not aware of it.Actually not true. There are a sensory links that bypass the brain. I saw a documentary some decades ago (and sadly I don't have a link) where there was a person who was 100% blind due to a dysfunction between eye and brain (which is to say, his eyes "worked"). When placed in front of a dark screen that had a light flashed on it, he was able to point to the light without ever actually "seeing" it.
I find your views interesting. I never knew there are Christians who actually think that way.But does a robot experience the sensation of light itself, or does it simply handle the information? Of course, robots do not really see the same way we do. They're merely empty shells. What they lack is the spirit. The spirit is what is required for the next step, to go beyond just processing information and actually experiencing it.
I wonder if it's even logically possible for the mind to understand itself. Obviously our minds are geared to understand how the world relates to us and how we relate to the world. Beyond that, though, it seems a bit transcendant to claim that the mind (being an object in nature) is able to understand its own nature. Am I making sense?
I agree with most of what you said, just have a few problems with this paragraph. I'd say philosophy and neurology work together quite well. Some questions can't be answered using neurology (or science in general) alone, for example whether we have a free will or not. Before it can do that, it needs a definition of what free will is, and this is primarily a philosophical question. Same with all ethical questions.If you're looking for actual answers, philosophy isn't the place to find them (for this and lots of other questions about fact and reality).
Mind is neither outside nor inside matter, but is constituent of the very essence of matter-interior to its being. It is part of the "isness" of matter, or , rather is that which is responsible for matters[sic] ability to become what it it is. Mind is, shall we say, a "becoming" of matter, the intrinsic, interior, self force of a body- what biologist Hans Dreisch after Aristotle called entelechy.
I agree with most of what you said, just have a few problems with this paragraph. I'd say philosophy and neurology work together quite well. Some questions can't be answered using neurology (or science in general) alone, for example whether we have a free will or not. Before it can do that, it needs a definition of what free will is, and this is primarily a philosophical question. Same with all ethical questions.
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