• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Mid-Acts Dispensationalism

Danoh

Newbie
Oct 11, 2011
3,064
310
✟48,028.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Mid-Acts Dispensationalism gets its name from the position it at first held as to Paul's distinctive ministry.

Not satisfied with those gaping holes in the respective understanding of things that was and continues to be Covenant, its offshoots, and Acts Two Dispensationalism and its offshoots, Mid-Acts; attempting to solve for both, found that Covenant and Acts Two Dispensational Theology were both off due to their continued insistence of fusing the Mystery concerning the Body first made known to and thru the Apostle Paul, with what was Prophesied of, to, and through Israel.

At first, Mid-Acts took Paul's distinctive ministry to have begun in Acts 13, where he was publicly separated before others by God, unto his ministry, thus, the label, Mid-Acts.

Later, a finer distinction - the further understanding that Gal. 1:17 actually fits in between Acts 9a and Acts 9b, together with Paul's various testimonies in Acts as to what took place between him and the Lord in Acts 9, resulted in the finer distinction that Paul's distinctive ministry: the Mystery of God's New Creature; the Body of Christ, of which Paul was its first member, 1 Tim. 1:16, began with Paul in Acts 9.

It is still reffered to as Mid-Acts, but we mean Acts 9. Though, there are still some 13ers out there, and, of course, Welch's and Bullinger's Acts 28ers.

Unfortunately, most who write against any of this: Ironside, Gerstner, Ryrie, you name them, regardless of their respective bias, just lump them all together towards the straw.man arguement our opponants seek to build their otherwise full of holes assertions on.

Anyway, the Mid-Acts Perspective is the understanding that the Mystery Paul preached, has to do with God's foreknown response thru an aspect of the Cross "hid in God," til Paul, as to God's response to Lucifer's FALL FROM his HEAVENLY place of authority.

The Mystery has to do with God's foreknown response to THAT fall - with His one day reconciling back unto Himself those even now fallen thrones, powers, dominions, and principalities in Heavenly places, presently the domain of the prince of the power of the air and those dark princes who fell with him - that "spiritual wickedness in high places THE BODY is said to be at war with, in Eph. 6.

Its why Paul talks about all those things; those thrones, those dominions, etc., having been made by Christ and for Him. Paul's is not just some passing reference, rather, he has this Mystery's own, unique doctrines in mind.

For, as God was revealing this Mystery through Paul, those principalities and powers in the Heavenlies were seeing, through this New Creature Body of Christ Church revelation: this once hidden aspect of the Cross.

How that when "the Lord of glory," of this Mystery's own glory in Him, not only rose from the dead, not only ascended back unto the Father, but FAR ABOVE ALL principality and power, AND EVERY name that is named - EVERY authority, would be, or otherwise, what He actually did by thst was that He made an open show of just how God had all along not only planned to prove Who ALONE was the ONLY Potentate AND Lord of Lords, but had purposed a New Creature: His Son's Body, by which He had planned to one day fill ALL that authority in the Heavenlies with - His Son's Body: by which He will one day fill all in all those authorities, or, positions of rank and authority.

Just as He had planned for this Earth to one day be divided as to His authority on the Earth through Israel, between its Twelve Princes.

Thus, from the Mid-Acts Perspective, God is not through with Israel by virtue of the fact that what He has set out to do through THAT agency is not only through those aspects of the Cross that were prophesied, but because He has set out to accomplish that for Himself, in His Son.

Thus, God, knowing that Israel would once more fall, had planned to begin to put in, operation, at last, the Mystery during one of said falls, as He has to first restore those fallen Heavenly authorities back unto Himself, if His "Thy will be done; ON EARTH," is to be "as it is IN HEAVEN."

That resolved, He will then return to roar out of Sion, to at last reconcile this Earth back unto Himself, from David's RESTORED throne, via "a kingdom of priests."

Thus Paul's "of whom the whole family is named on Earth AND Heaven - a reference to God's Two-Fold Purpose in His Son at Calvary.

In this, Mid-Acts sees Genesis thru Acts 8 and Hebrews thru Revelation as part of God's Prophesied, Israelite Truth, written to us and for us to learn and learn patience and take comfort from, in God's plans for Israel, while Romans thru Philemon is to us, for us, and ABOUT us: that Church which is His Body.

Its why WE hold to a Pre-Trib Rapture, for example. Because with it, God will be through with His present stage of His unfolding of this New Creature unto its one day ever being with the Lord as to His reign over the Heavenlies through this Body, by which He will fill all in all in the Heavenlies.

If these things are so, then all else is merely an attempt, unawares, on the part of many, to aid "the Disputer of this world," to not only hide his greatest embarrasment in his own craftiness before all creation, that the revelation of the Mystery made known, but to keep from the Body, the very truth for today, by which God would establish the Body unto all understanding, and wisdom in the knowledege of Him as to this Mystery, that we might be presented perfect as to same before the Lord of this Mystery's own, unique glory, at His coming.
 
Last edited:

Danoh

Newbie
Oct 11, 2011
3,064
310
✟48,028.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Replacement Theology, basically asserts that Israel's various promises had merely been a symbol of a coming Body of Christ.

Acts Two Dispensationalism asserts Israel's promises were and are literal, but then turns around and asserts many of those promises as also to the Body during this temporay visit of God among the Gentiles.

Mid-Acts Dispensationalism asserts that Israel is Israel; its promises both literal, as well as solely that nation's, but presently on hold, til the fullness of God's visit among the Uncircumcision, of which Israel is presently just another nation in Uncircumcision, out of which He is building the Body of Christ, be come in.

Per Mid-Acts, the Body began with the first person Christ appeared to and saved while he was in the Uncircumcision of his heart; jn his having blasphemed the Holy Spirit: the Apostle Paul, 1 Tim. 1:15, 16.

Per Mid-Acts, Paul's distinct ministery: the Mystery, is the key to solving for both, a literal Israel and that nation's promises, regardless of whether "we see not" that nation's "signs."

This greatly impacts every aspect of one's understanding of Scripture.
 
Upvote 0

Danoh

Newbie
Oct 11, 2011
3,064
310
✟48,028.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Time Past: Israel's Literal Promises...

But Now: Israel's Promises on Hold... Paul's Mystery Gospel - of the Uncircumcision - to all without distinction... the Body having its own promises...

Ages to Come: Israel's Promises Fulfilled...

The Fullness of Times: Both Israel and the Body ONE Household of God.
 
Upvote 0

Danoh

Newbie
Oct 11, 2011
3,064
310
✟48,028.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Inter, the evidence is in favor of a Mid-Acts Dispensational Hermeneutic. You have not only admitted [on the Eschatolgy forum] that you know nothing of Mid-Acts, but have insisted that sound byte answers be provided you. Look at how you right off reacted from your full of holes "Futurism" bias.

Fact is, these issues cannot be settled via sound bytes. I warned you over there that you would reslond as you have, and you have.

Here is a question you haven't an answer for, as, even most Mid-Acts people have apparantly not asked it, so I doubt your Replacement through symbolizing away so much that is literal, thus, you complete misunderstanding of the Mystery, can answer soundly:

God got what He'd sought - from the believing remnant of that nation - why then did He still shut down what He had prophesied He would do through them, as Romans 15: 8, 9 make clear He had intended to - why the need for an Apostle of the Gentiles if the prophecy was that He would outreach the Gentiles through the election of Israel?

And the answer to that is not Acts 13 as you MIS-understand it.

Again, even most Mid-Acts people miss this, as many of us, still.focus too much on Israel's fall, over the obvious implication of why God, turn from the election of that nation as well..

And no, He did not begin His new creature through them. Also, there is a consistent precedent in His dealings with that nation for why He also turned from their elect in Acts.

But go ahead, gainsay it through the bias the mass quantity of holes in your Replacement Theology gave rise to same.

You could challenge yourself to actually examine this Hermeneutic, but obviously, your mind is made up against the very Hermeneutic you have asserted you know nothing of by your "what is this mid-acts thingy" question over on the Eschatology forum - by your own words you have both tried, as well as, have found yourself wanting short of your supposed understanding of these things.

Not mad at ya, just M.A.D. :)
 
Upvote 0
D

dan p

Guest
Mid-Acts Dispensationalism gets its name from the position it at first held as to Paul's distinctive ministry.


Hi and most Grace people , call them selves Mid-Acts , so as to include Acts 9 ,11 , 13 and 28 .

They also say , like at the college , that the Body of Christ began with Paul after he wrote his first epistle .

They are divided between Acts 9 , 11 and 13 !

Most Acts 9 people can not say how Saul was saved in Acts 9:6 nor explain where Grace began or who was the first one in the Body or explain , are the 12 In or are they Out !

dan p
 
Upvote 0

Dispy

Veteran
Jan 16, 2004
2,551
32
94
South Dakota
✟4,680.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
H

Most Acts 9 people can not say how Saul was saved in Acts 9:6 nor explain where Grace began or who was the first one in the Body or explain , are the 12 In or are they Out !

dan p

As I read of the conversion of Saul/Paul, in Acts 9, I have come to the conclusion that Saul was saved by pure GRACE. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that the doctrine of pure GRACE began at his conversion. He was not save according to the doctrine of the Law that was in effect at that time. Correct me if I am wrong.

IMHO, the 12 have an earthly kingdom to look forward to. Members of the Church, the Body of Christ have a home "...eternal in the heavens" (2 Cor. 5:1). Isn't that obvious enough for you?
 
Upvote 0
D

dan p

Guest
As I read of the conversion of Saul/Paul, in Acts 9, I have come to the conclusion that Saul was saved by pure GRACE. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that the doctrine of pure GRACE began at his conversion. He was not save according to the doctrine of the Law that was in effect at that time. Correct me if I am wrong.

IMHO, the 12 have an earthly kingdom to look forward to. Members of the Church, the Body of Christ have a home "...eternal in the heavens" (2 Cor. 5:1). Isn't that obvious enough for you?


Hi and Grace did begin with Paul as did the Body of Christ !

What verses do you use to prove that Saul/Paul was saved in Acts 9:6 and glad you believe that it is Acts 9

There some Acts 9 and Acts 13 people in our assembly and a former Pastor was also Acts 13 , and when I asked him to show why Acts 13 , he refused to say why , understandable , since they can not prove it , and some dispensationalist also believe that Saul/Paul was saved by Kingdom preaching .


dan p
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Danoh

Newbie
Oct 11, 2011
3,064
310
✟48,028.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Hi and Grace did begin with Paul as did the Body of Christ !

What verses do you use to prove that Saul/Paul was saved in Acts 9:6 and glad you believe that it is Acts 9

There some Acts 9 and Acts 13 people in our assembly and a former Pastor was also Acts 13 , and when I asked him to show why Acts 13 , he refused to say why , understandable , since they can not prove it , and some dispensationalist also believe that Saul/Paul was saved by Kingdom preaching .


dan p

There are a host passages, but I'll this as to my view of Acts Two Dispensationalism, as it supports with what ever it is you are playing cat and mouse, as usual with, Dan p :)


From the Mid-Acts Perspective I study these issues out, anyone who believes the Body of Christ began on an Israelite Feast Day - Pentecost - Lev. 14; Acts 2 - is unknowingly asserting the Body is a "spiritual Jew" as well.

The Body began with its pattern of salvation in Uncircumcision, it's first Body member - Paul, Israel's chief sinner as to Israel's blasphemy against the Spirit Acts 7:51 in light of Matt. 12:30-32, and 1 Tim. 1:12-16 in light of Acts 26:9-11.

Per the above, Paul was saved after God conclued Israel, and Paul in Uncircumcision!
 
Upvote 0

Danoh

Newbie
Oct 11, 2011
3,064
310
✟48,028.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
When we study the scriptures thematically, we find that mid acts fails to align with the thematic teaching of the scriptures.. ie, the story itself.

Mid acts rejects that the body of Christ is the future bride of Christ and instead claims that it is Christ Himself.

Pretty high minded if you ask me.

Hmmm, from Mid-Acts being new to you just a while back to already an expert . I suspect you are reading what is clearly your too soon highminded conclusion into this matter.

For the Body is NOT Christ, rather, "the Body is OF Christ."

While the Bride of the Lamb is the New Jerusalem.
 
Upvote 0

MWood

Newbie
Jan 7, 2013
3,894
7,990
✟137,571.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
When we study the scriptures thematically, we find that mid acts fails to align with the thematic teaching of the scriptures.. ie, the story itself.

Mid acts rejects that the body of Christ is the future bride of Christ and instead claims that it is Christ Himself.

Pretty high minded if you ask me.

If you want a thematic teaching of Christ you need to start with the seed of Abraham that was promised to be a blessing to the whole world and follow that seed all the way through to the stoning of Stephen. The stoning of Stephen is the rejection of the Holy Ghost. You know where to find the rejection of God and Jesus.

And if you have studied your Bible you would have, by now, realized that all of the old testament and the four gospels and half of the book of Acts is God and Jesus and His disciples teaching the nation of Israel all the things contained therein. The Gentiles were not given any thing contained therein unless they came to Israel and asked to know the God of Israel. Then they were taught all the things that God had given to Israel and then they were a member of the nation Israel. The Gentiles didn't receive anything until Jesus died on the Cross. They didn't know they had received anything then until the Apostle Paul revealed to them the Gospel that Jesus revealed to him. The Gospel of the Grace of God. This is thematically studying the scriptures. Following the theme of the Word of God from the Promised Seed to the giving to the Gentiles the knowledge of God through the Apostle Paul.

As for the Body of Christ being the Bride of Christ? This makes for good preaching. Especially to those that don't read and study their bible. But there is no truth in it. To know the truth of who the Bride is, go to, and read Rev.21: 9-10. These two verses tells you the truth. These are not spoken of by the preachers. They also believe the Body is the Bride.
 
Upvote 0
O

Old Timer

Guest
Hmmm, from Mid-Acts being new to you just a while back to already an expert . I suspect you are reading what is clearly your too soon highminded conclusion into this matter.

For the Body is NOT Christ, rather, "the Body is OF Christ."

While the Bride of the Lamb is the New Jerusalem.

Not an expert, simply an observation that you reject that the body of Christ is the future bride of Christ.

Thematically we see this in Abraham sending his eldest servant to find a bride for his only begotten son Isaac.
 
Upvote 0
O

Old Timer

Guest
If you want a thematic teaching of Christ you need to start with the seed of Abraham that was promised to be a blessing to the whole world and follow that seed all the way through to the stoning of Stephen. The stoning of Stephen is the rejection of the Holy Ghost. You know where to find the rejection of God and Jesus.

And if you have studied your Bible you would have, by now, realized that all of the old testament and the four gospels and half of the book of Acts is God and Jesus and His disciples teaching the nation of Israel all the things contained therein. The Gentiles were not given any thing contained therein unless they came to Israel and asked to know the God of Israel. Then they were taught all the things that God had given to Israel and then they were a member of the nation Israel. The Gentiles didn't receive anything until Jesus died on the Cross. They didn't know they had received anything then until the Apostle Paul revealed to them the Gospel that Jesus revealed to him. The Gospel of the Grace of God. This is thematically studying the scriptures. Following the theme of the Word of God from the Promised Seed to the giving to the Gentiles the knowledge of God through the Apostle Paul.

As for the Body of Christ being the Bride of Christ? This makes for good preaching. Especially to those that don't read and study their bible. But there is no truth in it. To know the truth of who the Bride is, go to, and read Rev.21: 9-10. These two verses tells you the truth. These are not spoken of by the preachers. They also believe the Body is the Bride.

Abraham is an excellent example of this where he does send his eldest servant to find a bride for his only begotten son Isaac... After coming down from the mountain where The Lord provided Himself a lamb.

IMO it doesn't get much clearer than that.
 
Upvote 0

MWood

Newbie
Jan 7, 2013
3,894
7,990
✟137,571.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Abraham is an excellent example of this where he does send his eldest servant to find a bride for his only begotten son Isaac... After coming down from the mountain where The Lord provided Himself a lamb.

IMO it doesn't get much clearer than that.

To know the Bride of Christ... Read Rev21:9-10
For sure, you will also know it doesn't get any clearer than this.
 
Upvote 0
O

Old Timer

Guest
To know the Bride of Christ... Read Rev21:9-10
For sure, you will also know it doesn't get any clearer than this.

I've read it many times and wonder at it still.. And that doesn't take anything away from the simple story of Abraham sending his eldest servant to find a bride for his only begotten son Isaac.

It simply adds to that glorious truth, as all scripture miraculously does.
 
Upvote 0
Oct 1, 2013
52
1
Ohio
✟22,683.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Hi and Grace did begin with Paul as did the Body of Christ !

What verses do you use to prove that Saul/Paul was saved in Acts 9:6 and glad you believe that it is Acts 9

There some Acts 9 and Acts 13 people in our assembly and a former Pastor was also Acts 13 , and when I asked him to show why Acts 13 , he refused to say why , understandable , since they can not prove it , and some dispensationalist also believe that Saul/Paul was saved by Kingdom preaching .


dan p
The verse you cite (Acts 9:6) is what proves it. Saul was saved/converted by his encounter with the Living Christ. There is no further account of a salvation story about Saul/Paul after that.

I have not heard anyone attempt to prove Paul was saved in Acts 13, so cannot answer it, but reviewing it, I can't see why anyone would try.

I have also never heard that Paul was saved by "Kingdom preaching". Interesting. How would they back that up? If that was the case, why did he stand by consenting while they stoned Stephen to death. Stephen was preaching a Kingdom message.

Jesus Christ appeared to Saul personally and taught him what He wanted Saul/Paul to know. He revealed to Paul The Mystery which was never before known to men from scripture. Paul said later he learned it of no man. What Paul taught was distinctive and unknown before his time. JM2cW :)
 
Upvote 0