mental illness

[blackribbon]

Imagining the brain is getting more detailed...some day, it might actually be possible to diagnose mental illnesses with scans and tangible evidence instead of just diagnosing it on symptoms and patient reports of symptoms.

How Brain Scans Could Become EKGs for Mental Disorders | TIME.com

 

[redblue22]

that would be helpful.

 

[blackribbon]

It might also remove the stigma and get people to realize that these are real medical conditions that need treatment instead of the popular stance that these are just "bad behavior" and the patient has control to correct the situation simply by a change in attitude.

 

[exitstageright]

It might also remove the stigma and get people to realize that these are real medical conditions that need treatment instead of the popular stance that these are just "bad behavior" and the patient has control to correct the situation simply by a change in attitude.

As Hawkeye,on the TV show,"M*A*S*H" said to Sidney,the Army Psychiatrist."You know,Sidney,your job is a lot tougher than ours.(Medical Surgeons). At least we can see where the patient is bleeding."

 

[pittsflyer]

Nope, bad behavior should never become normalized or rationalized. Our society would fall apart. We are a nation of laws and that law and order is what keeps us from collapsing into anarchy. Just because someone has an irregular brain scan does not give them a golden ticket to just do what ever they want because they are mentally ill.

They need to be drugged up and have a responsible 3rd party (one who explicitly agrees to it not just pinning it to a parent or spouse), if there is no 3rd party they need to be put in an institution.

It is totally unacceptable to let known crazy people just go about day to day lives never knowing when they will loose it.

The courts would have to wait for them to do something crazy first but once they do the mental condition should work against them not for them. For instance some guy that shoots his wife that he catches in bed with another man is not likely to go shoot up a grocery store full of people, he will likely lead a normal life and not be a nusance to society. The crazy person who is caught accosting someone should have more severe sanctions since its likely they will do something way worse later on.

Another for instance most people at least know someone who has a nut job spouse, as soon as it is documented that they are a nut job they should loose all standing in court for a divorce and child custody. My last boss had a "bipolar" ex wife and she had so much standing in court that it messed up him and his kids for years. She eventually lost standing but it had to go WAY over the top and took YEARS and she was able to do ALOT of financial and emotional damage to him and the kids before the courts finally said enough. The first documented case she should have been done, no pass go no collect anything. As soon as it can be documented that she is not a rational person the sun should set on her ever seeing her kids or having any favorable standing in divorce court. We are way to soft on this stuff in our society.

I agree we need more research into this sort of thing so we can isolate these people from the rest of society because they do a lot of harm with relatively no consequences.

Another instance was a woman hopped up on phycotropic drugs and went driving and killed a family of 3, the judge said, oh she is crazy so its ok, she got off with a wrist slap. A family of 3 is dead and the extended family devisated and she gets to walk away when she should have got a needle in her arm.

I am watching events unfold in our nation and the people have already had it now its just a matter of govt loosing a little power and if the police state starts to waiver people will start taking care of this stuff on their own because its clear the courts are not.

It might also remove the stigma and get people to realize that these are real medical conditions that need treatment instead of the popular stance that these are just "bad behavior" and the patient has control to correct the situation simply by a change in attitude.

 

[blackribbon]

Nope, bad behavior should never become normalized or rationalized. Our society would fall apart. We are a nation of laws and that law and order is what keeps us from collapsing into anarchy. Just because someone has an irregular brain scan does not give them a golden ticket to just do what ever they want because they are mentally ill.

They need to be drugged up and have a responsible 3rd party (one who explicitly agrees to it not just pinning it to a parent or spouse), if there is no 3rd party they need to be put in an institution.

It is totally unacceptable to let known crazy people just go about day to day lives never knowing when they will loose it.

The courts would have to wait for them to do something crazy first but once they do the mental condition should work against them not for them. For instance some guy that shoots his wife that he catches in bed with another man is not likely to go shoot up a grocery store full of people, he will likely lead a normal life and not be a nusance to society. The crazy person who is caught accosting someone should have more severe sanctions since its likely they will do something way worse later on.

Obviously, you have no idea of how the courts and mental illness work. Those "crazy people" are often put in our hospitals as it is...they don't go through the normal court system because the judicial system knows the difference.

Should I say the same about the old lady with dementia who physically assaults me for cleaning her up? try her for assault because that is often when happens. Or the man with a fever that sees hallucinations? Maybe self-control is what he needs and not antibiotics and antipyectics. Same probably goes for the person whose level of consciousness changes because their blood sugars are completely out of whack...just try them for "drunkeness" because that is how their behavior appears.

 

[pittsflyer]

An old person in the hospital slapping you is not the same thing as a crazy person being given a drivers license (first mistake) then killing 3 people AND then walking when she should have got the death penalty.

Someones blood sugar getting out of control is not the same thing as a bipolar wife destroying her own family. The scary thing is this same woman is a fully functional engineer and if I did not know the back story I would have never known. If someone is crazy there should be full disclosure because I don't want to associate with them.

The courts recognize extents of crimes and petty crimes are just that, but as soon as someone does something truly destructive the mental illness should be used to add on charges especially if meds were not taken. The person that issued any licenses to operate machinery (to include a car) should also be criminally liable if they knew. It should be required to share mental health info with the DMV.

We are comparing apples and oranges.

Obviously, you have no idea of how the courts and mental illness work. Those "crazy people" are often put in our hospitals as it is...they don't go through the normal court system because the judicial system knows the difference.

Should I say the same about the old lady with dementia who physically assaults me for cleaning her up? try her for assault because that is often when happens. Or the man with a fever that sees hallucinations? Maybe self-control is what he needs and not antibiotics and antipyectics. Same probably goes for the person whose level of consciousness changes because their blood sugars are completely out of whack...just try them for "drunkeness" because that is how their behavior appears.

 

[Messy]

An old person in the hospital slapping you is not the same thing as a crazy person being given a drivers license (first mistake) then killing 3 people AND then walking when she should have got the death penalty.

Someones blood sugar getting out of control is not the same thing as a bipolar wife destroying her own family. The scary thing is this same woman is a fully functional engineer and if I did not know the back story I would have never known. If someone is crazy there should be full disclosure because I don't want to associate with them.

The courts recognize extents of crimes and petty crimes are just that, but as soon as someone does something truly destructive the mental illness should be used to add on charges especially if meds were not taken. The person that issued any licenses to operate machinery (to include a car) should also be criminally liable if they knew. It should be required to share mental health info with the DMV.

We are comparing apples and oranges.

I agree. You can use it as an excuse and the courts on earth will excuse people but I don't think God does. I think it's dangerous to think that way. He held me responsible for sinning. It wasn't oh you poor thing the psychiater says you're nuts nothing you can do about it. I was just full of anger and demon possessed. But if you go for help noone is home and you can go to Africa to have a demon kicked out. Not saying every mental illness is just demon possession, but in my case it was.

 

[blackribbon]

No, Pitts...

I believe that you are talking about a world you do not understand. I do not understand why it would be dangerous to issue a driver's license to a person who suffers from depression or bipolarism...in fact it is done every day, however we do not give a license to someone who suffers from a seizure disorder that is active or actively being treated.

And health care workers are assaulted by medical patients on a regular basis...however, this is kept quiet and we just attend classes on how to control an out of control patient without harming them and wear alarms around our necks so we can summons help in a moment.

If we must be required to share our mental health status, then I believe that many medical conditions should also be disclosed since when getting a license. And yes, diabetics who choose not to closely monitor their blood sugars are more of a risk than pretty much any mental illness when it comes to getting into an automobile accident.

Dementia patients do not simply slap...though I shouldn't be even slapped by a patient in my care. And the mentally ill person who does commit murder while in a psychotic state does not ever "walk free". They live in long term mental health hospitals under close supervision for most of their lives. And before you pull out a single isolated case where maybe someone got away with a crime, be carefully since we know that crimes that never claim mental illness sometimes go unpunished too. So don't prove your point with the exception without expecting to have an equally hideous case thrown back at you. As it is, there are entirely too many mentally ill people being thrown away in prison and not getting appropriate treatment for their diseases.

You once said that for it to be "medical" and science...you needed tangible proof. Our research is moving that way and eventually, it will be possible...same as measuring a blood sugar imbalance with a glucometer or recognizing a cancer because it metabolizes radioactive sugar at a faster rate than a normal non-cancerous cell (this is what a PET scan does).

 

[blackribbon]

I am not saying that a person who does something wrong in their right mind should not be punished or that a person who opts not to take their medication that allows them to be in their right mind should not be responsible for their actions. But if a person is in a full psychotic state where their perception of reality is altered, they should be treated and then punishment determined if appropriate when they are healthy enough to reason.

However, most mentally ill do not commit hideous crimes...or even petty ones. Most are honorable people trying to live normal lives in a world that does not understand them. They are far more likely to harm themselves than anyone else.

 

[pittsflyer]

If someone needs pills to function property and the pills can be linked to inability to operate a vehical then they should not get a licence. Just because our society is set up around driving does not change the fact that they can be dangerous if someone is under the influence of anything or incompetent. We give out drivers licences to WAY to many people as it is.

I have just seen too many cases where the legal system is way to lax for really serious stuff and if they were one off then I would not be hearing about them every 6 months or so. Sometimes things slip between the cracks in courts but it seems to be happening more and more.

I am not saying that a person who does something wrong in their right mind should not be punished or that a person who opts not to take their medication that allows them to be in their right mind should not be responsible for their actions. But if a person is in a full psychotic state where their perception of reality is altered, they should be treated and then punishment determined if appropriate when they are healthy enough to reason.

However, most mentally ill do not commit hideous crimes...or even petty ones. Most are honorable people trying to live normal lives in a world that does not understand them. They are far more likely to harm themselves than anyone else.

 

[blackribbon]

If someone needs pills to function property and the pills can be linked to inability to operate a vehical then they should not get a licence. Just because our society is set up around driving does not change the fact that they can be dangerous if someone is under the influence of anything or incompetent. We give out drivers licences to WAY to many people as it is.

I have just seen too many cases where the legal system is way to lax for really serious stuff and if they were one off then I would not be hearing about them every 6 months or so. Sometimes things slip between the cracks in courts but it seems to be happening more and more.

Are you kidding? So we should take away the license of every person on blood pressure meds or tell them to drive while risking a stroke because they don't want to lose their license by actually taking their medications?

 

[Messy]

In Holland with for instance ADHD you get tested by a doctor if you are able to get a driver ' s license.

 

[blackribbon]

In Holland with for instance ADHD you get tested by a doctor if you are able to get a driver ' s license.

Kind of scary since ADHD is a rule out diagnosis and not a positive diagnosis. They can't determine if you have ADHD, only that it is highly likely or highly unlikely. Best way to test is to put the patient on the medications and if they work, then they have AHDH...if not, then they react differently and don't have the diagnosis.

But if they work, why would you keep a person from having a license?

 

[pittsflyer]

Because the European philosophy is to make getting a license hard not looking for excuses to give them out like candy. Our society has gotten to the point that just because it is socially expedient to own a car that it should be a right even if you have no business being on the roads and your behavior puts others at risk.

I don't know how we got to the point as a society where we look for every excuse to give someone a license and make it really hard to take it away but its getting a lot of people killed.

I don't want a klutz to have a license, if you don't have enough situational awareness to not run into things walking or cant sit still for 30 min I don't want you on the road with me at high speeds with a 2000 lb vehicle or bigger. I have wrote my representatives that they should make people have a CDL to drive anything bigger than an F150. I see these soccer moms that can barely see over the dash of their escalade or H2's and its ridiculous.

So no its not scary, what is scary is having incompetent people on the roads. Another thing that is scary is how people just seem to not be able to comprehend how dangerous driving is if you screw it up. If you have any kind of issue or are on any kind of pills that effect your brain your licnece should get taken until you can pass a driving test again.

I just witnessed a wreck a week ago that killed 2 and a helicopter had to take one away in critical condition because some punk kid was driving 90 in a 65 and "lost control" crossed over a center ditch and hit someone head on. I have driven my truck at 90 and you don't just "loose control", unless you have all your dead beat teenage friends in the car acting like clowns and your to incompetent to have a licence. I can guarantee that this was not this kids first incident and yet he still had a license.

Kind of scary since ADHD is a rule out diagnosis and not a positive diagnosis. They can't determine if you have ADHD, only that it is highly likely or highly unlikely. Best way to test is to put the patient on the medications and if they work, then they have AHDH...if not, then they react differently and don't have the diagnosis.

But if they work, why would you keep a person from having a license?

 

[pittsflyer]

As a pilot I have to maintain a blood pressure below 155 uncorrected, why is unreasonable for driving where you can just as easily kill someone? It sucks because I like to eat but I like to fly more so I have to really watch what I eat. Plus 155 is not all that onerous, I should not have BP over 155 even if I did not fly because it puts you at massive risk for heart attack and BP pills have other crappy side effects.

Medical proffesionals should be working to get people off pills. Every time I choose to eat a greasy cheese burger I put myself at risk of loosing my license or having a heart attack or messing up my sex life. It is not worth it to me.

Are you kidding? So we should take away the license of every person on blood pressure meds or tell them to drive while risking a stroke because they don't want to lose their license by actually taking their medications?

 

[blackribbon]

As a pilot I have to maintain a blood pressure below 155 uncorrected, why is unreasonable for driving where you can just as easily kill someone? It sucks because I like to eat but I like to fly more so I have to really watch what I eat. Plus 155 is not all that onerous, I should not have BP over 155 even if I did not fly because it puts you at massive risk for heart attack and BP pills have other crappy side effects.

Medical proffesionals should be working to get people off pills. Every time I choose to eat a greasy cheese burger I put myself at risk of loosing my license or having a heart attack or messing up my sex life. It is not worth it to me.

You should not have a blood pressure higher than 120 to be considered healthy. The fact that they allow pilots to fly with uncorrected BPs as high as 155 scares me to death. That is almost to 160 which is hypertensive level 2 and considered getting up toward dangerously high levels. Do they check your bp before going up every time? If not, then the person who tests 155 in the doctor's office for an annual physical could actually be flying with stroke level blood pressure.

Medical professionals do like to get people to get off medications and choose healthier lifestyles...however we can not make people eat better or exercise better..that is an individual's responsibility. And we can't beat genetics. High blood pressure is much more dangerous than taking an antihypertensive medication.

If you are walking around daily with a blood pressure over 140 (with or without correction) , then you are risking the same things you claim to be trying to prevent...stroke, heart attack, or your sex life...

 

[blackribbon]

I wouldn't be opposed to making it harder to get a driver's license but driving skill should be tested, not their medical status. And even you weren't born an experienced driver...

Other transient things effect a person's ability to drive...maybe they have fever or are nauseous and just trying to get home from work...maybe they just found out that mom died...maybe they found out their spouse is asking for a divorce ... or their child was just rushed to the hospital...or they just finished a 13 hours shift working at the hospital for the 4th day in a row... how do you propose removing these risks from the roads?

 

[Bobthemotorcycle]

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[SpamHead]

Did I ever tell you guys the story of the time when I thought I was in Joplin, Mo but was actually in Fort Smith, Ar.

Please tell...