Men...

HonorB · Feb 1, 2006

Okay, I couldn't determine whether to post here or in SIS, but figured that there's a pretty decent crossover audience... Fancy that.

Anyway, I don't think that I'm alone in this but haven't seen a lot about it here.

How does one just accept and believe men again? I know that's a simplification but whether after rape or being otherwise utilized... How is it that so many survivors have good marriages where they are mature, reasonable women? (In part I'm asking so that when the reunion occurs my fella' is a winner.)
I mean, for me (I realize I'm a drastic result of drastic measures for thirty years) I find myself on the bus and some man will ogle me or a girl who gets on (who am I kidding? I'm thirty, more often it's the girl.) and I get all indignant on her behalf and against him and start attempting to shoot fiery beams at his trousers... Or something. I see a man at the airport flipping through Maxim and get Mad! And, I'm not the most reasonable woman to date when it comes to not being a little jealous... and otherwise having abandonment issues... and trust issues... And etc.... ISSUES!

I do know and realize that all men aren't johns and aren't perps and etc. This is academically totally understood but... Sometimes I act like a dog who can't deal with baseball caps being worn due to past owners.
Do any of the rest of you ever have that? Have any of the rest of you ever had that?

Oh! And the aforementioned anger I do solve with prayer and chatting with good Hims and the like... I just want to rid myself of the having rage, fear and the inability to trust a man.

Johnnz · Feb 1, 2006

I don't think it is just lack of trust. When you see men behaving sexually in inappropriate ways you know what that can lead to, how wrong it is to indulge sexual desires in unholy ways and where that can lead to. You have a valid anger at the way some men (& women) can degrade females.

John
NZ

lucybee · Feb 1, 2006

I understand how you feel. The past 2 days I have felt good about myself. I didnt dress any different than normal but both days I have caught a couple men completely staring at me. I mean I couldnt have been more covered up that I was, and I caught their eyes going up and down my body. I wanted to yell and scream and ask why they were doing this to me, I mean seriously I was not in any way dress provocativley. I did not look at them first, I was minding my own business. It was creepy and disgusting and I dont understand why they were doing it.

I was so mad at them and now I feel it was my fault, and I did something wrong

HonorB · Feb 1, 2006

That's totally true John... As with most things extremism isn't where it's at. And, I don't know, it seems like these days people are pretending more than anything else... Perhaps these bits of progress have really backfired and it's not just me.
Of course, I also am in the US where I can't get here without seeing Jessica Simpson at least five times... Yea, glad she decided to do what was right... Sigh.
It seems as though if people would bother to rediscover sensuality we'd be on the road again... Unfortunately everyone (here at least) likes to think that's a word to giggle at. Thusly the McDonalds pervasion. Ugh.

UnitynLove · Feb 1, 2006

sorry

HonorB · Feb 2, 2006

UnitynLove said:
Untangle the Knots...One Day at a Time

Picture your life as a jumble of shoestrings all tied up in knots—each shoestring a different color. The different shoestrings represent the different elements of your life, your family, your job, etc. This jumble of knots could be representative of many of our lives—with everything all knotted up. Each knot represents a problem, and the process of untangling those knots and straightening out those problems is going to take a bit of time and effort. It took a long time to tie all those knots, and it will take some time to straighten them all out.

I realize from my own experience that it often seems that no progress is being made. You may feel you have so many problems that you are getting absolutely nowhere. You must keep in mind that even though you have a long way to go, you have also come a long way. The solution is to thank God for the progress you have made thus far and trust Him to lead you on to eventual healing—one day at a time.

One of our problems is that in our modern, instantaneous society we tend to jump from one thing to another. We have come to expect everything to be quick and easy. It's difficult for us to have the patience to stick with a problem until we see a breakthrough, and that's why we need God's help.

You see, God never gets in a hurry. He never quits or runs out of patience. He will deal with us about one particular thing, and then He will let us rest for a while—but not too long. Soon He will come back and begin to work on something else. He will continue until, one by one, our knots are all untied.

If it sometimes seems that you're not making any progress, it's because the Lord is untying your knots one at a time. It may be hard, and it may take time, but if you will commit yourself to the process of getting well, sooner or later you will see real victory in your life and experience the freedom you have wanted for so long.

In some things I experienced freedom in a few months or a year, but there was one area in my life that took fourteen long years to overcome. The important thing to remember is: no matter how long it takes, never give up, and never quit—keep at it.

Maybe you're standing in the way of your own healing. Have you ever asked yourself, "Do I really want to get well?" Did you know there are people who really don't want to get well? It takes some people years to overcome their problems ...and some never do. They don't really want to move on past their problems. It seems they've become accustomed to having those problems around, and they're just content to live with them.

Sometimes people actually get addicted to having problems. It becomes their identity, their life. It defines everything they think and say and do. Their life seems to revolve around their problems.

If you have a deep-seated and lingering disorder, you may be tempted to make that the focal point of your life. But I encourage you not to give in to that temptation. If you do, it will try to control your thinking and dominate every conversation you have. Don't let your life be taken over by your problems.

If you really want to get well, you'll have to stop using your problem as a means of getting attention or sympathy or pity.
We get angry with those who tell us the truth. And the truth is that before we can get well, we must really want to be well—body, soul, and spirit. We must want to get well badly enough that we are willing to hear and accept the truth about our situation.

Make a vow right now that from this moment on you are not going to waste any more of your valuable time feeling sorry for yourself and wallowing in self-pity over things you cannot change. Promise yourself that you'll stop using your problem as a crutch in your life. Instead, pledge that you will untangle the knots a little at a time, while living each day to the fullest, looking forward to what God has in store for you as you follow Him ...one day at a time.

Wow.
I don't know that THAT was called for.
I know all about people (even me) wallowing and the like. I am going to assume that you've read all of my posts in their entirety before making that enormous jump.
I had asked in the original posting not how to consider feeling sorry for myself but rather whether I really was alone iand crazy.
I appreciate the lot about the knots. But... Wow... I'm also extraordinarily offended.

HonorB · Feb 2, 2006

Okay, first off. Is anyone else having problems with the quick reply?

Secondly and more important.
Thank you UnityNLove. I really appreciate, more than the blessings, the apology. I'll stick to the knots metaphor and work on the snarl though.
And, UnityNLove, thanks for making men look good too. Your generosity and lack of ferocity is beautiful.

beetlequeendiva · Feb 5, 2006

i know for me the first person i told about the abuse was a man and 2 of the closest people to me in all this are men. one is a father so sees everything through a fathers eyes and the other one is my age and has been there for me like no other person could have been. I hate some men - they creep me out something major. I think it's about working out who you can trust and realiseing that NOT all men are evil b*s***ds - some of them are perfectly nice

goldenviolet · Feb 5, 2006

HonorB said:
Okay, I couldn't determine whether to post here or in SIS, but figured that there's a pretty decent crossover audience... Fancy that.

Anyway, I don't think that I'm alone in this but haven't seen a lot about it here.

How does one just accept and believe men again? I know that's a simplification but whether after rape or being otherwise utilized... How is it that so many survivors have good marriages where they are mature, reasonable women? (In part I'm asking so that when the reunion occurs my fella' is a winner.)
I mean, for me (I realize I'm a drastic result of drastic measures for thirty years) I find myself on the bus and some man will ogle me or a girl who gets on (who am I kidding? I'm thirty, more often it's the girl.) and I get all indignant on her behalf and against him and start attempting to shoot fiery beams at his trousers... Or something. I see a man at the airport flipping through Maxim and get Mad! And, I'm not the most reasonable woman to date when it comes to not being a little jealous... and otherwise having abandonment issues... and trust issues... And etc.... ISSUES!

I do know and realize that all men aren't johns and aren't perps and etc. This is academically totally understood but... Sometimes I act like a dog who can't deal with baseball caps being worn due to past owners.
Do any of the rest of you ever have that? Have any of the rest of you ever had that?

Oh! And the aforementioned anger I do solve with prayer and chatting with good Hims and the like... I just want to rid myself of the having rage, fear and the inability to trust a man.

it's a combination of healling and growth to help us get past our hurts, and triggers... some independance too ...

i think it takes being around good Christian men to change how we see other men. we need examples and a clear understanding of their spiritual morality to learn trust from the individuals when it gets to close relationships. i think we will catch glimpses of abusive behavior from men who have those possible traits. it's a warning flag to us. i think it's prudent to see/think about it in some circumstances.

KrazyPhish · Feb 5, 2006

I don't trust men, except my dad and my friend -who I've known for a long, long time.
There's a guy in my youth group who is just one of those really huggy guys, I know that it's genuinely not a sexual thing, but I cringe when he hugs me.

HonorB · Feb 6, 2006

Yea...
One of the weirdest things about the whole deal is that most of my friends are guys...
But, still, those triggers... I mean really? Who am I to determine who on a bus should be blasted into the shape of an elephant with monkey hands?
I appreciate the replies.
I was talking to my mom about it and she asked what the difference was between the men I trust and the ones who make me wince and wear garlic.
I came to the response that it was that I trust those men with whom I get to participate. I, me... This person, here.

Stephanida · Feb 21, 2006

I don't know what to say about this as I am still working on this issue myself.

njcl · Mar 4, 2006

honor B welcome to the real world- before your abuse you were oblivious to men and their stares and what they meant now your aware and hence careful about your safety,great means you wont be caught out in the future by them as your mind is tuned into self preservation.........AMEN

Johnnz · Mar 4, 2006

HonorB said:
That's totally true John... As with most things extremism isn't where it's at. And, I don't know, it seems like these days people are pretending more than anything else... Perhaps these bits of progress have really backfired and it's not just me.
Of course, I also am in the US where I can't get here without seeing Jessica Simpson at least five times... Yea, glad she decided to do what was right... Sigh.
It seems as though if people would bother to rediscover sensuality we'd be on the road again... Unfortunately everyone (here at least) likes to think that's a word to giggle at. Thusly the McDonalds pervasion. Ugh.

Hi again,

I agree with your comments about sensuality.

Sexual issues are not that simple. Lucybee recently commented how she experienced being 'mentally undressed' even though she was modestly dressed at the time. That illustrates what Jesus taught about our hearts being the real source of our life. We tend to focus on externals.

However, consider that a man with a pure heart will see a woman as a person, not as a body. A woman may be dressed conservatively, revealingly, seductively or be totally naked, yet lust and sexual impurity are never issues for him. Another man will think and see 'sex' in all those cases.

Because it is a heart thing I sometimes wonder if our focus in externals (clothing) may not contribute to much unhealthy sexuality such as porn. We need to be far more at ease with our sexuality than we are. A healthy sexuality can go along way to innoculate us from the purient and wrong.

For example, as a young guy I was easily aroused by the female at times - conservatively dressed or otherwise. Yet I have never desired or even serioulsy contemplated sex or sexual activity with any other woman apart from my wife of more than 40 years. My values and having thought through sexual issues are the reason for that, and I am very comfortable both with my sexuality and the issue of human sexuality generally.

Also, women should recognise that there can be a spiritual force behind some men's looks. Then his 'just looking' is almost tangible. Try quietly praying and watch what happens when you mention Jesus.

Can you add something more about what your comments on sensuality meant? I think you may be onto something that needs more discussion.

John
NZ

tgg · Mar 5, 2006

HonorB said:
How does one just accept and believe men again? I know that's a simplification but whether after rape or being otherwise utilized... How is it that so many survivors have good marriages where they are mature, reasonable women? (In part I'm asking so that when the reunion occurs my fella' is a winner.)

Maybe it is because their survival skills have made them headstrong individuals and able to be able to deal with discrepancies a lot better than those who have led very sheltered lives.

I mean, for me (I realize I'm a drastic result of drastic measures for thirty years) I find myself on the bus and some man will ogle me or a girl who gets on (who am I kidding? I'm thirty, more often it's the girl.) and I get all indignant on her behalf and against him and start attempting to shoot fiery beams at his trousers... Or something. I see a man at the airport flipping through Maxim and get Mad!

That's just a biological fact of life: men are visual creatures. The only way that this could be changed would have to be changing the way we view the female form. The mystification of the human form is what makes things worse.

And, I'm not the most reasonable woman to date when it comes to not being a little jealous... and otherwise having abandonment issues... and trust issues... And etc.... ISSUES!

Ask the LORD for guidance on this issue. I know what it was like to have a jealous girlfriend. You need to let go of jealousy, because the more stuck you remain the less chances you have of finding a life partner.

Do any of the rest of you ever have that? Have any of the rest of you ever had that?[/quote]

I have had my trust betrayed by three women whom I loved, and so on my part there is also a sense of distrust. This is not easy for me, since I now have my eye on a lovely young lady whom I have known for almost a year.

She's a very good hearted person, but I am also quite cautious with the way I treat her. I'm not too overly affectionate or loquacious with her because my previous relationships with women were marred by these character traits of mine.

Anyway, I hope that God will listen to you and grant you a sense of trust and patience.

tgg

kato1265 · Mar 7, 2006

Honor B ... find a male mentor - someone you admire ...

I was 18 years old when I met my step-dad and at first, I didn't know what to expect from him; same as any other man, I supposed. But, he turned out to be a good guy and was the first tool G-d used to show me there are good men. At 24, I went to work for a man who also set a good example for me - he was almost retirement age. Then, at 35, I married a man who was wonderful to me. By that point in my life, I'd come to recognize the difference.

This is why I think people who've been cheated out of a normal or happy experience can benefit from mentors.

HonorB · Mar 11, 2006

Though I am Christian I still... Though I am woman I still...

I posted this and what has followed. Well, John always wants us to all solve the problem so as he is more readily accepted somewhere.

Others- it's not about mentorship. It's also not about my becoming a-ok with our make-up. To that I ask: Are you one of those guys who doesn't care what we say about you? Are our b's really that much more important than you?
But.... No one is having anything to say about how... There have been responses by predators, victims and otherwise.
Still- after a point- being Christians and loving us- how do we stop and accept any man? Ever? (Without being prey thanks)

Psalmangel · Mar 11, 2006

There are some men who don't like themselves because they are perverts or have perverted thoughts and perhaps have a perverted past which they regret.

CollectiveSoul · Mar 29, 2006

Is this directed solely at women then because men abuse boys too. Do I "trust" men? I have odd feelings about some but in some ways it's made me tougher. I don't take my childhood attack and use it on others condeming the male species-- but I do have kids and those kids will not have male babysitters,left alone with men I don't trust..etc. I feel the same about female sitters too though so maybe I'm just that paranoid now. anyone can abuse. it's not gender specific.or age.

sethad · Apr 1, 2006

I agree with collective...

There are a lot of male victims too. And there are male abusers and female abusers.

I think I have a hard time with "trust" in general. Just one of those things.

Of course I'm getting custody of my son now. I'm a very paranoid dad...

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