Where does it say in the bible that God created evil?TheMilkman said:Calling it a war has always bothered me. That implies that God has limits and has to war with Satan to retain his flock. It says in the bible that God created evil, so I guess it just means that God gave Satan the power to tempt us away from him to make the believers stronger in their faith.
I did not read through the whole thread so someone might have already covered the point I'm going to address. This topic has come up so many times in the non-christian section with people close to accepting Christ but afraid they have committed the unforgivable sin so what's the point? First of all, I believe the unforgivable sin is extremely rare, you have to remember Christ was directing this statement to Pharisees who just saw him perform miracles and told the crowd its by the devil he does such things, undermining Christ teaching and signs, doing great harm in that day and time. Christ was letting the Pharisees know to persist in this accusations against him will result in damnation. Did some of the Pharisees keep their mouth shut on the devil being inside Jesus after this warning, who knows, maybe some did but Christ let them know the seriousness of their accusations. Fast forward to our day and time with all kinds of people coming back to Christ from devil worshippers to murders to harden hearts, etc. If someone is guilty of the unforgivable sin they would not be able to repent and ask forgiveness, their hearts will have been set in that sin to oppose God regardless, very rare I believe though people through sin and refusing God's grace time after time can get a harden heart making coming back to God harder but not impossible. Jesus wants all to come to him and will refuse none who ask for forgiveness and healing. If a person ask the Lord to come into his/her life the Lord will not walk away but enter that person's heart and life. Put the unforgivable sin far from thought, there is enough sin that separates one from God that we need to resist and conquer so as not to be separated from our Lord and Savior, God bless.TheMilkman said:Yeah it makes perfect sense. Unfortunatly, it brings up another issue. I was once a Christian until I was about 18 years old. I am now almost 22 and just recently returned to Christianity. That means that I did know and still rejected.
geocajun said:Where does it say in the bible that God created evil?
Shelb5 said:It is what it is, a war for our soul. After a man has made peace with God through baptism, he is summoned to spiritual battle. This is a reality than none of the baptized can escape. The devil will not give you up that easily to grace. He is prince of this world and as ruler he will seek to devour you.
TheMilkman said:Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
There ya go.
Thats a terrible translation, in the KJV which obviously does not square with the rest of scripture. Try again Milkman.TheMilkman said:Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
There ya go.
WarriorAngel said:Foot Note; The evils of affliction and punishments, but not the evil of sins.
geocajun said:Thats a terrible translation, in the KJV which obviously does not square with the rest of scripture. Try again Milkman.
There are something like 8 different words for the Hebrew Rah, and since the idea of God creating evil is ruled out in the rest of scripture, we know that the translation the KJV uses is incorrect.
It indirectly ties into that. He did not create evil, sin did. What he created was free will that would reject him and chose sin that brings evil to the soul. Once the soul is enveloped in evil it responds to God less and less to the point God has hardens our hearts against him, he has given us over to the evil we cling to through our sins.TheMilkman said:Anyway, lets not let this thread skew. It is about what blasphemy means and how can one blaspheme themselves onto a train headed to hell, ha.
Shelb5 said:It indirectly ties into that. He did not create evil, sin did. What he created was free will that would reject him and chose sin that brings evil to the soul. Once the soul is enveloped in evil it responds to God less and less to the point God has hardens our hearts against him, he has given us over to the evil we cling to through our sins.
This is a state of spiritual ruins and if we die in this state we will be lost because we wanted nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit who calls us to repent and when we do it is the Holy Spirit that brings the grace that the cross won to us that gives us the divine life.
solomon said:The authoritative version(NAB) I usual refer to when it comes to the 'nitpcking' is located online at:
http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/isaiah/isaiah45.htm#foot4
4 I form the light, and create the darkness, I make well-being and create woe; I, the LORD, do all these things.
It often contains a commentary at the bottom to help us understand these more difficult passages. ie
4 [7] Create woe: God permits evil for the sake of a greater good.
Of course as a cradle Catholic, for myself, the teaching of an omni-benevolent God comes before any scriptural interpretion, and forms the backdrop for any further understanding, and helps to limit any misunderstanding as well.
For it was Jesus himself that calls God all-good, and it is Genesis which reveals how evil enters into the world.
The sovereignty of God of course places God in control, forever at the helm, perpetually turning man's evil into good, such as he did by not holding the hand of the Saduccees as they fulfilled his pupose in the sacrafice of his beloved Son.
Through the evil of the Egyptians, or the Assyrians, or the Baylonians, or Greeks, or the Romans, and so on, God is forever using the evil of others as a chastisement against our own, to both teach us and to reveal his own glory.
But it would be a mistake< I think to make God into the author of our own evil, for that may just make evil itself an eternal attribute of our existence.
And that is contrary to the Gospel in which evil is eternally destroyed in the Lake of Fire.
Shelb5 said:MilkMan,
There is no proof to present. It is in how you interpret the words.
God permitting evil is not the same as God actively creating it. He created it in so much he allows us to choose it. How we chose it is we chose against good. Evil is the absence of good.
No one is mad at you, calm down.TheMilkman said:How can you possibly say that? Someone else said that Rah was mistranslated then I gave evidence that it wasn't. That is not a matter of opinion, it is what it is.
Despite what you say this has went grossly off topic. All I wanted to know was what the verses I stated meant and if I was going to hell for once being an atheist. It was a simple question that got grossly skewed. I have now learned that Marcus Borg is right. If you say anything that a traditionalist doesn't like then you are out of the clubhouse.
I guess there is no reason to continue posting on here since there topic has been mucked so much.
Also, you cannot truly choose good if you cannot just as truly and freely choose evil. If the only option available was to choose to do good, then there is not in actuality any free will or any real glory to God.Shelb5 said:No one is mad at you, calm down.
I was not referring to any particular translation, I was referring to how one personally interprets what they read.
We have what the Church teaches us and when you interpret something that contradicts that then you are not interpreting it correctly.
God did not make evil, he allowed it as he allowed humans to chose sin and fall from His grace. Evil is the absence of good. The absence of God in you. That is what 'creates' evil.
For Christians, all roads lead to Jesus Christ. The proof of our faith, and the justification for our faith lies in Christ.TheMilkman said:.....
Also, give me some biblical evidence that he didn't create evil? I have given you all my evidence, so I would like a little in return. The beauty of atheism is that most atheists don't just hear someone with power (pastor, rabbi, etc.) say something and automatically believe it. Most atheists also go where the proof is at. That is one good quality I have taken away from my experience as an atheist. If you all can prove me wrong I will GLADLY admit that I am wrong and agree that God didn't create evil. It isn't about holding on the hear-say ideas, it's about knowing the truth.
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