Me, myself and I.

[Dick Barton]

By way of introduction, I admit to being autistic, which creates problems for lots of people especially moderators as they expect me to express myself the same way as everyone else does.

That is not going to happen for the simple reason I am into a certain way of writing and thinking and there is nothing I can do about it. Autistic people do not criticize. They see things a certain way and express themselves accordingly which usually mean they call a spade a spade.

If you are offended by what I write, no offence is intended.

And just to let you know where I am coming from I have been a Christian for 68 years; I have four degrees, one theological and three university, and have completed a dissertation for a Ph.D. I say this because my experience is that some Christian try to pour cold water on learning because they are jealous that they do not have any degrees.

I have as personal library of over 1,000 books so I am well read. I study daily to show myself approved to God, not man, so you may find what I understand as the truth may not be the same as yours.

I do not comment on anything unless I have done copious study of the subject. If I haven't I keep quiet.

 

[Anhelyna]

Welcome to CF

I hope you will enjoy being here with us

 

[Dick Barton]

Welcome to CF

I hope you will enjoy being here with us

Many thanks Anhelyna

 

[Mark Quayle]

By way of introduction, I admit to being autistic, which creates problems for lots of people especially moderators as they expect me to express myself the same way as everyone else does.

That is not going to happen for the simple reason I am into a certain way of writing and thinking and there is nothing I can do about it. Autistic people do not criticize. They see things a certain way and express themselves accordingly which usually mean they call a spade a spade.

If you are offended by what I write, no offence is intended.

And just to let you know where I am coming from I have been a Christian for 68 years; I have four degrees, one theological and three university, and have completed a dissertation for a Ph.D. I say this because my experience is that some Christian try to pour cold water on learning because they are jealous that they do not have any degrees.

I have as personal library of over 1,000 books so I am well read. I study daily to show myself approved to God, not man, so you may find what I understand as the truth may not be the same as yours.

I do not comment on anything unless I have done copious study of the subject. If I haven't I keep quiet.

You are obviously intelligent. So, if copious study leads you to certain conclusions, does that mean your conclusions are correct? I point you here to the human habit, which applies to normal and abnormal people, wise man and fool, sane and madman, but is particularly identified with madmen, of making a false assumption on which to build perfectly logical constructions. This is theoretically possible for all of us, and therefore, a logical possibility to keep in mind to temper our conclusions and vehemence, no?

I like to think I call a spade a spade. But what I think is a spade may well not be.

While I agree that your delivery and demeanor are different, the autistic still can remember the verse that says, "lean not on your own understanding", which habit will affect your delivery and demeanor. I should know; what came out of my mouth when I was younger was only candor and honesty, and automatic. But the autism was tempered by slaps on the mouth by teachers, and on the rearmost by parents and elders. And I'm still learning.

God bless you and keep you.

 

[Dick Barton]

You are obviously intelligent. So, if copious study leads you to certain conclusions, does that mean your conclusions are correct? I point you here to the human habit, which applies to normal and abnormal people, wise man and fool, sane and madman, but is particularly identified with madmen, of making a false assumption on which to build perfectly logical constructions. This is theoretically possible for all of us, and therefore, a logical possibility to keep in mind to temper our conclusions and vehemence, no?

I like to think I call a spade a spade. But what I think is a spade may well not be.

While I agree that your delivery and demeanor are different, the autistic still can remember the verse that says, "lean not on your own understanding", which habit will affect your delivery and demeanor. I should know; what came out of my mouth when I was younger was only candor and honesty, and automatic. But the autism was tempered by slaps on the mouth by teachers, and on the rearmost by parents and elders. And I'm still learning.

God bless you and keep you.

So, if copious study leads you to certain conclusions, does that mean your conclusions are correct?

I picked up that comment because I have addressed it in my introduction when I said my truth may be not your truth. Personally I can't see any purpose in studying if you don't believe that what you have studied is the truth.

I will give you one example. For my Ph.D, I read over 60 books on the topic under consideration. For me that means I now have a pretty good understanding of the topic. I read the books because I considered the authors knew more than I did and because I wanted to learn.

Having exposed myself to many different viewpoints on the topic, I feel very confident that I have a grasp of it. In addition, it was a requirement at university that when I wrote a paper on any topic. I had to present more than one viewpoint. I am grateful for the learning that I undertook at uni as it has made me a more rounded theologian who can nut out issues beyond the banal and trite.

 

[Joined2krist]

Welcome, God bless you

 

[Dick Barton]

Welcome, God bless you

Many thanks

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

Welcome Mr.? Barton. I hope your time here benefits you as well as others. I'll be happy to read your posts.

 

[rhomphaeam]

By way of introduction, I admit to being autistic, which creates problems for lots of people especially moderators as they expect me to express myself the same way as everyone else does.

That is not going to happen for the simple reason I am into a certain way of writing and thinking and there is nothing I can do about it. Autistic people do not criticize. They see things a certain way and express themselves accordingly which usually mean they call a spade a spade.

If you are offended by what I write, no offence is intended.

And just to let you know where I am coming from I have been a Christian for 68 years; I have four degrees, one theological and three university, and have completed a dissertation for a Ph.D. I say this because my experience is that some Christian try to pour cold water on learning because they are jealous that they do not have any degrees.

I have as personal library of over 1,000 books so I am well read. I study daily to show myself approved to God, not man, so you may find what I understand as the truth may not be the same as yours.

I do not comment on anything unless I have done copious study of the subject. If I haven't I keep quiet.

So let's see then? Dick! You are a charismatic, geriatric, Autistic, well educated Australian! And they say nothing good comes out of Australia.

 

[Mark Quayle]

So, if copious study leads you to certain conclusions, does that mean your conclusions are correct?

I suppose you meant, "incorrect"? Either way, no it doesn't mean they are correct nor that they are incorrect. They may also still be incomplete, as you know.

I picked up that comment because I have addressed it in my introduction when I said my truth may be not your truth. Personally I can't see any purpose in studying if you don't believe that what you have studied is the truth.

There is only one truth. But yeah, I know what you mean.

Scientists will be quick to tell you that their conclusions are ALWAYS tentative. Particularly as relates to Scripture, but in all things, what one believes should always subject to revision and better understanding, all the way back to the assumptions made to begin any line of reasoning. I can, and rightly, be dogmatic that God is Omnipotent First Cause, but there is still much to learn about what that means and what implications can be drawn about it.

Meanwhile, it is a joy to study and search out a matter.

I will give you one example. For my Ph.D, I read over 60 books on the topic under consideration. For me that means I now have a pretty good understanding of the topic. I read the books because I considered the authors knew more than I did and because I wanted to learn.

Having exposed myself to many different viewpoints on the topic, I feel very confident that I have a grasp of it. In addition, it was a requirement at university that when I wrote a paper on any topic. I had to present more than one viewpoint. I am grateful for the learning that I undertook at uni as it has made me a more rounded theologian who can nut out issues beyond the banal and trite.

And rightly so. Yet, you will admit, they can all be off by a hair at the outset, and be therefore quite a bit off at the conclusion. All of them. An apparently opposing viewpoint won't necessarily correct that error, either. Specially when the reasoning always (and yes, always,) involves bias and often involves things not taken into account. Witness the theological arguments here daily.

 

[Dick Barton]

Welcome Mr.? Barton. I hope your time here benefits you as well as others. I'll be happy to read your posts.

Thankyou. I appreciate your reply.

 

[Dick Barton]

So let's see then? Dick! You are a charismatic, geriatric, Autistic, well educated Australian! And they say nothing good comes out of Australia.

Nice to see your sense of humor. I think we are referred to as drongos occasionally.

 

[Dick Barton]

I suppose you meant, "incorrect"? Either way, no it doesn't mean they are correct nor that they are incorrect. They may also still be incomplete, as you know.



There is only one truth. But yeah, I know what you mean.

Scientists will be quick to tell you that their conclusions are ALWAYS tentative. Particularly as relates to Scripture, but in all things, what one believes should always subject to revision and better understanding, all the way back to the assumptions made to begin any line of reasoning. I can, and rightly, be dogmatic that God is Omnipotent First Cause, but there is still much to learn about what that means and what implications can be drawn about it.

Meanwhile, it is a joy to study and search out a matter.



And rightly so. Yet, you will admit, they can all be off by a hair at the outset, and be therefore quite a bit off at the conclusion. All of them. An apparently opposing viewpoint won't necessarily correct that error, either. Specially when the reasoning always (and yes, always,) involves bias and often involves things not taken into account. Witness the theological arguments here daily.

I need to point out that being autistic, I always approach any subject as an opportunity to learn and expand my knowledge base. Not from the perspective this could be wrong. I am not interested in right or wrong. My interest is the truth which is the one thing that sets you free.

I avoid saying anything unless I believe I have discovered the truth. For me to do otherwise is a waste of time. I know that some people cannot handle such a fact, but being autistic, I don't live my life out through others. As the scripture says we are to rejoice in the truth. The fact that it says that means that it is knowable.

 

[Dick Barton]

While I agree that your delivery and demeanor are different, the autistic still can remember the verse that says, "lean not on your own understanding", which habit will affect your delivery and demeanor.

God bless you and keep you.

Can I ask Mark, that if I read over 60 books for my P.hD, would you consider that leaning on my own understanding?

 

[Dick Barton]

I know for a lot of Christians lively discussion is a threat. I spent six years at uni and hardly a day went by that I wasn't involved in a lively discussion with all sorts of Toms, Dicks and Harrys. Especially in tutorials. We had our differences of opinions but at the end of the day we never fell out over them. We accepted that it was part of the learning process and it made uni interesting. Imagine a place of learning where no one disagreed with anyone.

Rigorous learning and discussion does not seem part and parcel of Christianity these days. To get any meat it seems that you have to go to bible college. Yet in scripture we are told to contend for the faith. How can we do that if we shy away from anything that challenges it?

Sermons are a waste of time as the educational experts tell us that we do not retain information beyond 20 minutes and if the sermon goes on longer than 20 minutes we forget the first 20 minutes.

What we need to do is to present topics and then open them up for discussion and dialoged. We would learn a lot more that way. This was possible in the New Testament Church because they met in homes, not in 10,000 seat auditoriums.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Can I ask Mark, that if I read over 60 books for my P.hD, would you consider that leaning on my own understanding?

Yes, it can be, as you have gained an understanding from those books, on which to lean. But the verse is not referring to leaning on books, nor to advice of humans, as opposed to leaning on one's own understanding, but to leaning on God.

Obviously, God does not disparage books, but pride and over-confidence in self. Still, admittedly, we must do according to what we think, or we are engaging in madness. But again, a little self-skepticism is healthy.

But I am not accusing you of anything here.

 

[Dick Barton]

Yes, it can be, as you have gained an understanding from those books, on which to lean. But the verse is not referring to leaning on books, nor to advice of humans, as opposed to leaning on one's own understanding, but to leaning on God.

Obviously, God does not disparage books, but pride and over-confidence in self. Still, admittedly, we must do according to what we think, or we are engaging in madness. But again, a little self-skepticism is healthy.

But I am not accusing you of anything here.

Have you considered that the understanding comes AFTER reading the books not before and that one reads the books to gain an understanding because you do not have it prior to reading them so there was no understanding to lean on?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Have you considered that the understanding comes AFTER reading the books not before and that one reads the books to gain an understanding because you do not have it prior to reading them so there was no understanding to lean on?

Of course! But after, one has an understanding to lean on. And that understanding should be regarded with an appropriate amount of skepticism. I am not saying it is bad.

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

I know for a lot of Christians lively discussion is a threat. I spent six years at uni and hardly a day went by that I wasn't involved in a lively discussion with all sorts of Toms, Dicks and Harrys. Especially in tutorials. We had our differences of opinions but at the end of the day we never fell out over them. We accepted that it was part of the learning process and it made uni interesting. Imagine a place of learning where no one disagreed with anyone.

Rigorous learning and discussion does not seem part and parcel of Christianity these days. To get any meat it seems that you have to go to bible college. Yet in scripture we are told to contend for the faith. How can we do that if we shy away from anything that challenges it?

Sermons are a waste of time as the educational experts tell us that we do not retain information beyond 20 minutes and if the sermon goes on longer than 20 minutes we forget the first 20 minutes.

What we need to do is to present topics and then open them up for discussion and dialoged. We would learn a lot more that way. This was possible in the New Testament Church because they met in homes, not in 10,000 seat auditoriums.

Quakers come close to this method maybe? If inspired, stand up and speak.

 

[Dick Barton]

Of course! But after, one has an understanding to lean on. And that understanding should be regarded with an appropriate amount of skepticism. I am not saying it is bad.

I am sorry Mark but skepticism is not in the vocabulary or emotions of an autistic person.