Maybe our Liberal Version of Christ is the right one?

[DavinMochrie]

We liberals are too understanding at times, and we are willing to accept that others have different understandings of Christ.

But maybe, our version is the accurate one. The Christ we read about in the Gospels.

That the Gospels are the true version of Christ.

Perhaps we all need to stand strong against the tide of 'Hate' done in Jesus's name?

 

[dies-l]

I always find it a little offputting when any paricular group (liberals, conservatives, moderates, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, etc.) claim to have the "true" version of Christ. Especially between liberals and conservatives, I find that each side misses some rather important attributes of the Biblical Christ.

 

[DavinMochrie]

I always find it a little offputting when any paricular group (liberals, conservatives, moderates, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, etc.) claim to have the "true" version of Christ. Especially between liberals and conservatives, I find that each side misses some rather important attributes of the Biblical Christ.

Yes,

but your response is exactly what I'm talking about.

Liberals suck it up and take the hard line conservative fundie bellowing all the time, yet maybe, just maybe we are right and they have it wrong....so very very wrong.

 

[dies-l]

Yes,

but your response is exactly what I'm talking about.

Liberals suck it up and take the hard line conservative fundie bellowing all the time, yet maybe, just maybe we are right and they have it wrong....so very very wrong.

This is why I find liberals easier to talk about such things with than conservatives. On the Conservative Christians forum, for example, I feel like I have to guard my tongue, lest I say something that is slightly critical of conservatism and be reported. Here, I say what I think, and I don't find it to be an issue, even when I am critical of liberalism. One of the strengths of liberal theology is that it is open to viewpoints that are critical of it, the end result of which is that conversations that need to happen in the Church tend to happen in more liberal and emerging circles. If liberals took the same hard line as many conservatives do, these conversations would likely not be happening at all.

One thing that I find quite interesting is the rise of some liberal ideas in the evangelical church. Evangelicals like Philip Yancy, Tony Campolo, Jim Wallace, and Rob Bell are taking on some very left-leaning perspectives and receiving acclaim within many segments of the Evangelical Right. Other, more conservative evangelicals, such as Rick Warren are taking on issues like AIDS and the environment that have always been associated with the Left. The reason, I believe, that this is happening is because liberal Christians have chosen to participate in the church with a sense of openness to dialogue that is often missing in the Right. Essentially, IMO, because liberal and emerging Christians maintain a certain amount of tolerance for divergent viewpoints, they have been able to effect change in the way many on the Right understand their role in the world.

I wouldn't want to see this dialogue shut off, because liberals try to out-conservative the conservatives.

 

[MattLangley]

Yes,

but your response is exactly what I'm talking about.

Liberals suck it up and take the hard line conservative fundie bellowing all the time, yet maybe, just maybe we are right and they have it wrong....so very very wrong.

If we take that too far then we cease to be liberal but become our own brand of conservative

Being understanding and willing to consider other perspectives is what makes us liberal (though obviously not necessarily putting up with abuse and attacks, two different things)... if we become close minded to other we will no longer be liberal.

 

[DavinMochrie]

If we take that too far then we cease to be liberal but become our own brand of conservative

Being understanding and willing to consider other perspectives is what makes us liberal (though obviously not necessarily putting up with abuse and attacks, two different things)... if we become close minded to other we will no longer be liberal.

Being right is not necessarily closed minded.

 

[DavinMochrie]

For those who are shocked that I might suggest liberals are right.... please note thread title starts with a 'Maybe'.

 

[MattLangley]

Being right is not necessarily closed minded.

Of course not, but considering yourself so right that you have to absolutely stiff a certain challenging viewpoint when in fact you have no way to confirm whether you are completely right or not is close minded

We believe that we have the accurate and right view of Jesus from what we study. Tomorrow we may change our view slightly after finding some new information, a further study, or even just insight in our own studies. No matter how strong we think the evidence supports our perspectives (which we actually disagree within each other to a point, though agree on some over-arching concepts) we cannot guarantee anything. The best we can do is suggest a most likely conclusion based on our own opinions. To state that it is any more, and more appropriately to state that anyone else's views are completely incorrect on an issue we have no way to confirm, well that's pretty close minded in my book and exactly why I'm no longer a conservative.

In a lot of ways being liberal in my opinion is less about what you believe and more about how you express it with and to others.

 

[DavinMochrie]

An Ex-Conservative is an interesting concept and gives me hope! he he

What do you make of the whole things that says it's typical to liberal when young, but Conservative when older and wiser?

 

[MattLangley]

An Ex-Conservative is an interesting concept and gives me hope! he he

It gives me hope for conservatives I run into now too Especially since I can relate pretty well. I was a pretty strict conservative, even if I wasn't a liberal bashing person (never was faced with a situation like that). Now I am a very liberal Christian. Based on my studies (I especially like the books by Borg) I no longer believe Jesus was divine or died for our sins, but that he simply was a Jewish man who fought against exclusion of his time... that's pretty liberal. So if I can make such big change just about anyone can.

What do you make of the whole things that says it's typical to liberal when young, but Conservative when older and wiser?

Well I was raised (as I mentioned by a Southern baptist pastor) and stayed conservative through and after high school. After which I started to open a bit and when I began to study a couple years back, the more knowledge I gained the more liberal I became.

To me older, wiser, and more intelligent directly resulted in me being more liberal, so I think that concept is garbage (unfortunately some people perpetuate it).

 

[DavinMochrie]

Matt,

technically we are arguing for the same thing.

For the Liberal position to be correct, it's not to be absolute.

 

[SpiritDriven]

We are not Liberal Christians people......open your Bibles to I Timothy 4.

Now you can read from verse 1 if you like or go straight to verses 9 10 and 11....which ever way you go or look at it from, the word of God describes us as....

especially of believers

Why are we described as.... especially of believers....because what scripture describes as to who is the...especially of believers.

We recognise....we rejoice in the Sovereign Power and Will of God....that he is the Saviour of all mankind....especially of believers.

Labeling us as Liberals is a deception and a lie.

There is nothing Liberal about recognising the Sovereign Power and Will of God !

We know that nobody will be lost to him...in the end.

Do you have any idea how unique it is to have that understanding in todays religiouse world!

Rejoice then, because that understanding came from God....it was he that revealed that too you..the individual.

In the words of the Apostle Paul....Rejoice ! and I say again Rejoice!

 

[DeanM]

We are not Liberal Christians people......open your Bibles to I Timothy 4.

I didn't wake up one morning and decide to call myself a liberal.

I found myself in several heated arguments in the Nondenominational area about the nature of God. I proposed that God was merciful and loving, and boy was I slammed for that. I might as well have been promoting satanism.

Then, I was given an obvious choice. Either get out of that forum, or stay where I was and have every one of my posts reported and actioned against by an obviously biased staff with an agenda of perpetuating supremacist ideals.

That was a long time ago, and those staffers are long gone now (you can judge for yourself whether there has been any improvement).

I later found WWMC and found that there were some Christians who were not Elitists.

And I, if I joined, would be labeled a liberal.

So, I chose to partner myself with liberals, and I wear the badge with honor.

But please don't tell me that I chose this label.

It might as well have been tattooed on me while I was tied down.

And if this site were run with any form of basic Christian ethic (see my sig) we would be right alongside all types of Christians, and not just the chosen few who pass muster in the eyes of one man's supremacist vision.

And if anyone thinks I'm playing favoritism by calling others elitist or supremacist, i suggest they look the words up in a dictionary and see what they mean. The people I'm referring to could just as easily stop partaking in the behaviour that garners them that label.

And if they don't like to be called those things, they should stop behaving in keeping with the definitions.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

An Ex-Conservative is an interesting concept and gives me hope! he he

What do you make of the whole things that says it's typical to liberal when young, but Conservative when older and wiser?

My personal experience is more the other way, comparable to this Dylan song:

YouTube - My back pages - Clapton,Dylan,Harrison,Young,Petty,McGuinn

My Back Pages

Crimson flames tied through my ears
Rollin' high and mighty traps
Pounced with fire on flaming roads
Using ideas as my maps
"We'll meet on edges, soon," said I
Proud 'neath heated brow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth
"Rip down all hate," I screamed
Lies that life is black and white
Spoke from my skull. I dreamed
Romantic facts of musketeers
Foundationed deep, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

Girls' faces formed the forward path
From phony jealousy
To memorizing politics
Of ancient history
Flung down by corpse evangelists
Unthought of, though, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

A self-ordained professor's tongue
Too serious to fool
Spouted out that liberty
Is just equality in school
"Equality," I spoke the word
As if a wedding vow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand
At the mongrel dogs who teach
Fearing not that I'd become my enemy
In the instant that I preach
My existence led by confusion boats
Mutiny from stern to bow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

Yes, my guard stood hard when abstract threats
Too noble to neglect
Deceived me into thinking
I had something to protect
Good and bad, I defined these terms
Quite clear, no doubt, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

The song tells the story of a young left-wing radical growing up and becoming wiser, less ideological and simplistic, more truly liberal. It describes me too, except that I was a young conservative firebrand who came from the other direction but had to learn the same lessons.

 

[Mirabelle]

God is Love, to know the breath and depth of His Love keeps the dialogue going, in trying to be our brother's Keeper we sometimes betray the love and light bearer.

 

[MattLangley]

We are not Liberal Christians people......open your Bibles to I Timothy 4.

Now you can read from verse 1 if you like or go straight to verses 9 10 and 11....which ever way you go or look at it from, the word of God describes us as....

especially of believers

Why are we described as.... especially of believers....because what scripture describes as to who is the...especially of believers.

We recognise....we rejoice in the Sovereign Power and Will of God....that he is the Saviour of all mankind....especially of believers.

Labeling us as Liberals is a deception and a lie.

There is nothing Liberal about recognising the Sovereign Power and Will of God !

We know that nobody will be lost to him...in the end.

Do you have any idea how unique it is to have that understanding in todays religiouse world!

Rejoice then, because that understanding came from God....it was he that revealed that too you..the individual.

In the words of the Apostle Paul....Rejoice ! and I say again Rejoice!

I completely disagree... there's nothing bad about being Liberal... the best simple definition I found is the one on dictionary.com:

favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.

Jesus was very much liberal he sought change, progress, and reform. If anything he demanded it and got killed for trying to get that progress and reform. I don't know how one could be more liberal.

I think as people we need to always be seeking progress and reform. We will never be perfect, which is why it's important we always are progressing.

I very much believe you either are progressing forward or backwards, that you never truly stay in one place, that you either are going in one direction or the other. So I choose to be liberal and to keep on progressing and reforming, I hope I am never complacent with the way things are and I hope I always seek to better myself.

 

[SpiritDriven]

People there is nothing Liberal about recognising the Sovereign power and Will of God.

That can be very... Liberating.... for your soul ! but there is nothing Liberal about it.

The Sovereign Power and Will of God should be self evident too you, as it will become self evident to all in the end.

The word of God describes who we are....the especially of believers....because we know Gods intention towards all men, because God revealed that to each of us as individuals.

There is nothing supremist in that....God wants you too rejoice in who you are....he went to the trouble of describing who you are, in his word via Paul.

So most of Christendom seeks to ban us from posting such Good News for all mankind....what did you expect...

For this we strive and suffer reproach....was written about what we would go through in Gods word, for trying to spread this Good News towards all men.

God will make....especially of believers....of all human kind in the end...full stop.

There is nothing Liberal Progressive or reforming about that...

GOD IS STILL ON PLAN A ...there was never any back up plan, there never was a plan B...got the picture yet people.

 

[divided sky]

There was a man named Jesus who came from Nazareth, who preached and did certain things about 2000 years ago. What he preached and did comes to us through the lens of the various writings in the NT. So, anyone's version of Christ comes from their interpretation of the NT, in particular, the canoncial Gospels.

In my opinion, the historical-critical method of interpretation is the best method for understanding the writings in the Bible (including the OT). For anyone familiar with this method, they will know it's not widely accepted by Christians, especially Conservative Christians, for many of the conclusions this method comes to about the writings in the Bible.

However, in my view, this method brings us closer to the truth being communicated by these texts. Conservatives want air tight certainty. Liberals are more willing to tolerate mystery and uncertainty (I fall into this camp). Conservatives need a perfect, inerrant Bible. Liberals are more willing to recognize the authors were doing their best to communicate profound ideas given the language and symbols of their day.

You will never have agreement on which "version" of Jesus is the correct one. The canonical Gospels themselves do not have one version of Jesus. You're going to tell me the Jesus of the Synoptic Gospels is the same Jesus as in the Gospel of John? But again, in my view, the historical-critical method is the best method to understanding who Jesus was and the message he preached.

I believe in the historical-critical Jesus!

 

[DavinMochrie]

There is nothing Liberal Progressive or reforming about that...

There is nothing Evil Conservative about it.

 

[lismore]

I've been in some very conservative Christian circles in the past. I finally realised we were going round in circles. No matter what happened, what evidence or scripture to the contrary was presented we had to believe A,B,C.

I dont think I can be close-minded and be a Christian. There is so much more to learn, so much new ground to explore. As God said 'Come let us reason together'.

Why would God give us the capacity to reason and have a dialogue with him, if he didnt want us to use it?