Matthew 7:21-23

[revolutionist90]

Hello fellow traditional Christians,
I'm new! I have been wrestling with Matthew 7:21-23 and what that means for me trying to lead a Christian life. The verse go like this:

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

So obviously not everyone can make it through the gates but the conundrum that I am having is that these people believed in God (or their own version) and firmly believed they followed his word. So is it really only a belief in God or is it more?
I don't want to turn legalistic because I also know that good works will also not help but from that verse it also seems like faith alone is not enough also.
So here are my questions: is it really just faith alone or is the verse talking about those who basically make up their own God?
And this is a really broad question but what IS the will of God? I've been reading a book called The Cost of Discipleship by Dietrich Bonhoeffer and it is giving me an idea of what following the will of God entails. It seems to be a combination of truly loving God and obeying him. But what do you guys think?

 

[justhere1]

To understand how we must enter the Kingdom of Heaven, we must know the will, and what is the will of God? The answer is found in John 6:40 (KJV) which states "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

You don't need to go to any other book except the Bible to find what the will of God is.

The people that Jesus said "depart from me" to, were trusting in faith AND works, and that was their problem. It must be ALL faith. Ephesians 2:8-9 states: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Galatians 2:16 says: "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

There are plenty of more Scritures that proves that salvation is through faith alone. Notice how those people were naming off various works? These people never lost their salvation. They were never saved in the first place. You can't trust in Jesus AND works. If you trust in your works "just in case", then you're not really puting your trust 100 percent on Jesus to save you.

I hope this helped. Let me know if I need to elaborate more.

 

[1watchman]

Agreed, and one should see such as 1 Jn. 5:10-12 and John 3:36 to further understand what you shared, Justhere.

 

[Purge187]

I think Christ is referring to "cafeteria Christians" who went through the motions but never accepted him as Savior.

 

[Albion]

Hello fellow traditional Christians,
I'm new! I have been wrestling with Matthew 7:21-23 and what that means for me trying to lead a Christian life. The verse go like this:

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

So obviously not everyone can make it through the gates but the conundrum that I am having is that these people believed in God (or their own version) and firmly believed they followed his word. So is it really only a belief in God or is it more?
I don't want to turn legalistic because I also know that good works will also not help but from that verse it also seems like faith alone is not enough also.
So here are my questions: is it really just faith alone or is the verse talking about those who basically make up their own God?
And this is a really broad question but what IS the will of God? I've been reading a book called The Cost of Discipleship by Dietrich Bonhoeffer and it is giving me an idea of what following the will of God entails. It seems to be a combination of truly loving God and obeying him. But what do you guys think?

If I understand you correctly, you do not think that the passages refer to "cafeteria Christians" or lackadaisical Christians. I see in the verses people who got into the swing of Christianity to the extent of engaging in the sexier aspects of discipleship--casting out devils, prophesizing, perhaps speaking in tongues, etc. --but did not actually lead Christlike lives "off camera."

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello fellow traditional Christians,
I'm new! I have been wrestling with Matthew 7:21-23 and what that means for me trying to lead a Christian life. The verse go like this:

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Hi Revolutionist90, first off, Happy New Year and WELCOME TO CF ..

It's pretty hard to reconcile v22 with what comes just before and just after it, isn't it? I think the key to understanding this passage, as well as understanding who the folks in v22 really are, can be found in v23 where the Lord declares to them,
"I never knew you".

Does that sound to you like something the Lord would or COULD say concerning His own children ..

Yours and His,
David

 

[timur123456789]

Being born again is the process, it is not a one time event.

According to the New Testament we ought to KEEP HIS commandments.

Jesus says:
If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Jn.14:15)

 

[St_Worm2]

So obviously not everyone can make it through the gates but the conundrum that I am having is that these people believed in God (or their own version) and firmly believed they followed his word.

Continuing ...

For reference, here again is v22:

Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'​

Hi R90, the folks in v22 believed they should be allowed to enter Heaven. What reason or reasons did they give for this belief?

Do their beliefs coincide with the Bible's teaching concerning the way of salvation? IOW, do you think the reasons they gave in v22 demonstrate that they believed in and trusted God with their lives and for their salvation, or were they actually believing and trusting in something and/or someone else ..

Yours and His,
David

 

[saintandrew4life]

they trusted works,when they should have trusted in faith

 

[revolutionist90]

To understand how we must enter the Kingdom of Heaven, we must know the will, and what is the will of God? The answer is found in John 6:40 (KJV) which states "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

You don't need to go to any other book except the Bible to find what the will of God is.

The people that Jesus said "depart from me" to, were trusting in faith AND works, and that was their problem. It must be ALL faith. Ephesians 2:8-9 states: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Galatians 2:16 says: "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

There are plenty of more Scritures that proves that salvation is through faith alone. Notice how those people were naming off various works? These people never lost their salvation. They were never saved in the first place. You can't trust in Jesus AND works. If you trust in your works "just in case", then you're not really puting your trust 100 percent on Jesus to save you.

I hope this helped. Let me know if I need to elaborate more.

I think that is where my confusion lies. I agree that we should not do things to follow law and that only faith in Christ alone will save us but is it safe to say that a person who follows Christ and has faith in him alone would not do certain things? For example, (bear with me) there is a weird anti-Christian argument that states that Hitler was a Christian. Now for you and me the idea is probably ludicrous but this idea in a sense is saying that since Hitler believed he was following God (controversial) he was a Christian and his atrocities against others did not matter. So his "faith" and not his works are to be focused on. Of course this argument ignores the whole "judge a man by his fruits" but that is an example of my confusion. If a person says I have faith and believe in God but still do bad things is it really faith?
Another thing is that I do certain things because I believe it will please God and I am showing my own daily worship and thanks by doing those certain things such as dressing a certain way or eating/drinking certain things. I'd like to think that is important and it is not really law but my faith in God pushes me to do things that show him glory.
But like the guys in scripture, myself and possibly Hitler they could all believe they are doing the right thing?
So I guess my question has come to how do you know you are doing right and truly have faith in God. I think I do but those guys in scripture did to...

 

[revolutionist90]

I think Christ is referring to "cafeteria Christians" who went through the motions but never accepted him as Savior.

I see what you mean.

 

[revolutionist90]

If I understand you correctly, you do not think that the passages refer to "cafeteria Christians" or lackadaisical Christians. I see in the verses people who got into the swing of Christianity to the extent of engaging in the sexier aspects of discipleship--casting out devils, prophesizing, perhaps speaking in tongues, etc. --but did not actually lead Christlike lives "off camera."

So you see the verse as talking more about people who "straddled the fence"?

 

[revolutionist90]

Hi Revolutionist90, first off, Happy New Year and WELCOME TO CF ..

It's pretty hard to reconcile v22 with what comes just before and just after it, isn't it? I think the key to understanding this passage, as well as understanding who the folks in v22 really are, can be found in v23 where the Lord declares to them,
"I never knew you".

Does that sound to you like something the Lord would or COULD say concerning His own children ..

Yours and His,
David

Yes that is true God would not cast out his own children but those who never accepted him.

 

[Albion]

So you see the verse as talking more about people who "straddled the fence"?

Not if by "straddled the fence" we mean lukewarm or halfhearted. What I described--and I think the passage refers to--is more like shallow or superficial.

 

[revolutionist90]

Continuing ...

For reference, here again is v22:

Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'​

Hi R90, the folks in v22 believed they should be allowed to enter Heaven. What reason or reasons did they give for this belief?

Do their beliefs coincide with the Bible's teaching concerning the way of salvation? IOW, do you think the reasons they gave in v22 demonstrate that they believed in and trusted God with their lives and for their salvation, or were they actually believing and trusting in something and/or someone else ..

Yours and His,
David

Yeah those are pretty much the questions that confuse me at times. Maybe they had too much pride and thought of themselves as great. Maybe they had no humility. Also since they simply spoke of works and not really anything about loving God or thanking God maybe they did not trust in God but only in themselves. Or maybe they believed in their own god who was really not the real God.

 

[justhere1]

I think that is where my confusion lies. I agree that we should not do things to follow law and that only faith in Christ alone will save us but is it safe to say that a person who follows Christ and has faith in him alone would not do certain things? For example, (bear with me) there is a weird anti-Christian argument that states that Hitler was a Christian. Now for you and me the idea is probably ludicrous but this idea in a sense is saying that since Hitler believed he was following God (controversial) he was a Christian and his atrocities against others did not matter. So his "faith" and not his works are to be focused on. Of course this argument ignores the whole "judge a man by his fruits" but that is an example of my confusion. If a person says I have faith and believe in God but still do bad things is it really faith?
Another thing is that I do certain things because I believe it will please God and I am showing my own daily worship and thanks by doing those certain things such as dressing a certain way or eating/drinking certain things. I'd like to think that is important and it is not really law but my faith in God pushes me to do things that show him glory.
But like the guys in scripture, myself and possibly Hitler they could all believe they are doing the right thing?
So I guess my question has come to how do you know you are doing right and truly have faith in God. I think I do but those guys in scripture did to...

I think when you have faith, you may not be perfect overnight, but the Holy Spirit will convict you of certain things and as you grow in Christ, typically you would seek to learn the things in the Bible and obey the commands out of love. That's not to say we won't do certain things wrong since we will never be perfect in this life, but we strive towards perfection.

 

[miamited]

Hi revolutionist,

To me, the difference is found in the first commandment. Jesus, when asked what was the most important law, answered the query:

Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees,http://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/22.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-21 the Pharisees got together, One of them, an expert in the law,http://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/22.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-22 tested him with this question: "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'http://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/22.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-bhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/22.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-23 This is the first and greatest commandment.

Jesus seemed to make it quite clear that this 'love for God' was the greatest command of all. I believe that even the second command that Jesus gave flows naturally from the first. I think what will ultimately separate those who Jesus knew and those that he didn't, will all boil down to those who actually loved their God and Creator, Sustainer and Redeemer and those who just practiced some form of religiosity with the God of Israel as the centerpiece of that practice.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted