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Matthew 5:19

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Steve Petersen

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In the Mishnah there are references to 'light' and 'heavy' commandments. IMO, 'the least' refers to 'light' commandments.
 
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bugkiller

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bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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So can you show us where the Scripture states the law continues? No the rest of the verse states sin was in the world before the law. The part you quote shows a purpose of the law - not that sin did not exist.
 
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jdbear

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bugkiller said,
So can you show us where the Scripture states the law continues?
Click to expand...
Jesus said it in Mt.5. This is what the conversation is about.
bugkiller said,
No the rest of the verse states sin was in the world before the law. The part you quote shows a purpose of the law - not that sin did not exist.
Click to expand...
Exactly what I said.
bugkiller said,
That is nothing but staright up opnion bsed on nothing.
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God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil and commanded Adam not to eat from it. This is what my opinion is based on.
bugkiller said,
Oh? where is this found?
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"For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them, but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it." Heb.4:2

bugkiller said,
I do not follow your last statement at all. Where does Moses say anything about faith in Deut 30? Moses does not even say believe. The order/command is to do (preform).
Click to expand...
Moses doesn't use the words "faith" or "believe" in Deut 30. Paul related what Moses said to faith. In fact, Paul interpreted what Moses said as pertaining to faith in Christ.
 
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bugkiller

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jdbear said:
Jesus said it in Mt.5. This is what the conversation is about.
Click to expand...
I regret in having to inform you the word but is an exception and not an agreement. The word but is a direct departure from the previous communication. In the case of Mat 5 you refer to the words following the but are not found nor implied in the law.
Exactly what I said.
Click to expand...
Exactly what you said was - but sin is not imputed when there is no law. This is the last half of the verse.

You said nothing about sin being in the world before the law as written before the colon. Indeed where there is no law thare can be no violation which is not necessarily sin (evil). The law makes some things sin which are not evil such as garments and or their material or the eating of meat.
God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil and commanded Adam not to eat from it. This is what my opinion is based on.
Click to expand...
OK but such an explanation leaves nothing on the table. IOW I can not connect that to what you have written.
"For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them, but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it." Heb.4:2
Click to expand...
What was actually preached to them? Was it the cross, death and resurrection of God the Son - Jesus the Christ they were to have faith in? Nope It was indirectly promised - That is God the Son was not revealed to them. They had and still do have problems accepting Jesus the Christ as God.
Moses doesn't use the words "faith" or "believe" in Deut 30. Paul related what Moses said to faith. In fact, Paul interpreted what Moses said as pertaining to faith in Christ.
Click to expand...
So what Moses does do is tell them God's performance requiements they can not and never did perform. Paul also says that basicly God use them to bless every one on the planet - 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Rom 11.

It is mentioned earlier in this post - sin is not imputed when there is no law. I pointed out that is a purpose of the law. Rom 11:32 is also a reason and explanation of that purpose.

bugkiller
 
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Notrash

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Steve Petersen said:
In the Mishnah there are references to 'light' and 'heavy' commandments. IMO, 'the least' refers to 'light' commandments.
Click to expand...

I disagree; it's the new words and principles he is then speaking to the individual believing heart. They are being contrast withe corporal, conditional and stipulative law of moses.
 
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jdbear

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Not implied? Jesus' words are the very soul of the law. The insanity of your argument is in not seeing that what Jesus commanded is 10 times harder than what Moses said. It's much easier not to commit the physical act of adultery than it is not to think about it. Something is seriously wrong with the Christian faith of today.
bugkiller said,
Exactly what you said was - but sin is not imputed when there is no law. This is the last half of the verse.
You said nothing about sin being in the world before the law as written before the colon.
Click to expand...
The fact that Paul said, "Sin is not imputed", means sin existed. I didn't think I had to quote the whole thing.
bugkiller said,
Indeed where there is no law thare can be no violation which is not necessarily sin (evil). The law makes some things sin which are not evil such as garments and or their material or the eating of meat.
Click to expand...
The garment and meat violations have to do with spiritual things, not material things. The point is, people before the law of Moses are responsible for their sins, even though there was no law.
bugkiller said,
OK but such an explanation leaves nothing on the table. IOW I can not connect that to what you have written.
Click to expand...
It sounded like you believed Adam and Eve didn't learn good and evil from God. I was just pointing out that He planted the tree and after they ate from it, God said they became like Him, knowing good and evil.
Yes I know they do, but the point is, Christ was preached to them. They didn't have to know His name or manner of death, etc.
bugkiller said,
So what Moses does do is tell them God's performance requiements they can not and never did perform.
Click to expand...
Moses said, " I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live." Deut.30:19
If Moses had only given them the law without faith, he would only have set death before them.
bugkiller,
Paul also says that basicly God use them to bless every one on the planet - 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Rom 11.
Click to expand...
And this is a good reason why we don't take every statement of the Bible in a strict sense, because we know many Jews did believe in Jesus, Paul being one of them.
bugkiller said,
It is mentioned earlier in this post - sin is not imputed when there is no law. I pointed out that is a purpose of the law. Rom 11:32 is also a reason and explanation of that purpose.
Click to expand...
I think if Paul was among us today, he would be horrified at how Christianity has twisted his teaching on the law.
 
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JLB777

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Matthew 5 - THESE COMMANDMENTS!


20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.


"You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, = Law of Moses = Righteousness of the Pharisee's [Righteousness of the Law].

But I say to you [Law of Christ] that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire. = Righteousness that exceeds the Law.

[Flows from the Divine nature of Christ].


"You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.' Law of Moses [Righteousness of the Pharisee's]
28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Law of Christ [Exceeds the Righteousness of the Pharisee's]


"Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' Law of Moses [Righteousness of the Pharisee's]

32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery. Law of Christ [Exceeds the Righteousness of the Pharisee's]



"Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.' Law of Moses [Righteousness of the Pharisee's]

34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one. Law of Christ [Exceeds the Righteousness of the Pharisee's]


38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' Law of Moses [Righteousness of the Pharisee's]

39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away. Law of Christ [Exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisee's]


43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' Law of Moses [Righteousness of the Pharisee's]

44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. Law of Christ [Exceeds the Righteousness of the Pharisee's]


You have heard it said = Law of Moses

But I say = Law of Christ



But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, Romans 3:21



1 "Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice, Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed He will not break, And smoking flax He will not quench; He will bring forth justice for truth. 4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, Till He has established justice in the earth; And the coastlands shall wait for His law." 5 Thus says God the Lord, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it, Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk on it: Isaiah 42:1-6

His law = But I say to you...


JLB
 
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Priest4Him

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This is a question that has created confusion for many Christians; If the works of the law cannot save a person, is it therefore necessary to keep the law of God? Well, this is not a question of this time, apparently this was the same question in the early church, because Paul asked the same question in Rom. 6:1 “Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?” Now, what is sin? 1 John 3:4 (KJV)
“Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.”

Is like saying in other words, does grace give us a license to disobey the law of God?
Paul answer his own question like this: “God FORBID. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” Rom 6:2.

So, why is it that many Christians in this age can still invent their own definitions that condone lawbreaking?

The Bible is so clear, sin is violating the Ten Commandments, or the law of God, which has been described as irrelevant and old-fashioned by many modern theologian! Please my friends don’t be deceived; His law is just as timely and needful today as they were when God wrote them in stone with His own finger.

Jesus did not came to void the law instead He came to magnify the law and to open up its spiritual application, making it more comprehensive than the legalistic Pharisees ever imagined.

Now is true that the law cannot save a single soul, but don’t forget that the law points out sin, but it cannot save because there is not justifying, cleansing grace in it. All the works of all the laws would not be sufficient to save, for the simple reason that we are saved by grace through faith, as a free gift. (Rom. 3:20)

The law was not made for the purpose of saving or justifying; Not in the OT nor in the NT, it was made to show us our need of cleansing and to point us to the great source of cleansing, Jesus Christ, our Lord. That is why the Bible speaks of the law as a mirror to show us what kind of persons we are:

“For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed” (James 1:23–25).


"If you love Me, keep My Commandments" Jn. 14:15.
 
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from scratch

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I think it is brought up by the SDA and not something many Christians come up against in the way the SDA talk about it.

You should give a little attention to a 4 letter word in I JN 3:4 - also. This means includes and isn't an all inclusive meaning.

Sin was in the world before the law. So sin can't be merely the breaking of the law. Rom 5:13. The law was added 430 years after Abraham because of sin. It was also for an exclusive period of time. Read Gal 3:17-19.

God gave the law for it to be broken. This way God could show mercy to all. Rom 11:32.

James has nothing to do with the keeping of the law.

You need to deal with who the law was given to and why. In Deut 5:3 Moses says specifically it was given exclusively to Israel. The law and the covenant was never given to the whole world.

Jeremiah says that God promised a new covenant. Jesus testified that new covenant is current as recorded in 3 Gospels. This new covenant is not like the old one. It is based on promises and not law. Read Heb 8 which also includes a quote from Jeremiah.
 
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Thru_HIM

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Greetings

For me, when "getting understanding" regarding holy scripture, I try to remember to do three things:

  • Go to the "throne of grace" (pray... asking the Holy Spirit - our knowledge/wisdom regulator, for His guidance & peace)

  • Context! (which you've wisely referenced ... ) The Holy Bible is not necessarily written with "human-logic" in mind, rather it inspired full/complete DIVINE thought(s). Keeping this in mind ... In order to truly understand any of the synoptic gospels, one must "spiritually" read the complete thought concerning any point being made.

  • The Culture & Geographic location! Understanding the customs & locations of the Peoples also gives much clarity.


Many believe that we are no longer "subject" to the Laws ascribed to the Pentateuch. Jesus clearly speaks that this is not so & gives a strong & definitive explanation as to why! (Matt 5:17)

Concerning your question:

Chapters 19 & 20 fully explain this. As Christ-followers, we are called to Godly standard. This separates us from those who yield/subscribe to the world & those who teach it! Jesus The Christ was speaking spiritually. Thus, the only way to "get" His meaning (through earnest prayer) is to receive that the Apocrypha was translated into English and some thoughts/meanings might be received differently through the process (which is why I'd quoted another translation for you).

Whoever breaks any of the Commandment given from the 3rd heaven "willingly" ... will receive judgement from the Father "in" heaven. Why? Because Jesus/God said ... “Do not think I have come to get rid of what is written in the Law or in the Prophets. I have not come to do that. Instead, I have come to give full meaning to what is written."

 
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*Charis*

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Matthew Henry makes a distinction in his commentary that I
feel explains this text well. The Pharisees, though meticulous
in their observance of law, were also hypocritical. They did
not keep the full law, yet burdened others to do so. It was
a burden because apart from the power of God, no one
is capable of keeping His law. Jesus, on the other hand, kept
the law perfectly in His own personal life and, as God, has
power to live His life through those who put their faith in Him.

Though the Pharisees taught the law, they were a poor
example of following it. Jesus was perfect in keeping the law
and enabling others to do so by His power.
 
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listed

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Is the quote of Jesus in Luke 24:44 related to Mat 5:17? I believe it is.

How would you reconcile Heb 7:12 with your concept? It says the law has changed. Is this wrong or a mistranslation?
 
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