Matthew 24 Checklist: A Preterist Argument

Danoh said:

Yeah, never mind that the same description of hail mixed with fire is described in Exodus 9, where the source was heaven, not catapults, etc. John was somehow unfamilar with Roman catapults. Yeah, ok...

NEXT!!!

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Book V, Chapter VI, Section 3 (Entire)

Hailstones One Hundred Pounds in Weight Thrown Upon City

3. However, John stayed behind, out of his fear of Simon, even while his own men were earnest in making a sally upon their enemies without. Yet did not Simon lie still, for he lay near the place of the siege; he brought his engines of war, and disposed of them at due distances upon the wall, both those which they took from Cestius formerly, and those which they got when they seized the garrison that lay in the tower Antonia. But though they had these engines in their possession, they had so little skill in using them, that they were in great measure useless to them; but a few there were who had been taught by deserters how to use them, which they did use, though after an awkward manner. So they cast stones and arrows at those that were making the banks; they also ran out upon them by companies, and fought with them. Now those that were at work covered themselves with hurdles spread over their banks, and their engines were opposed to them when they made their excursions. The engines, that all the legions had ready prepared for them, were admirably contrived; but still more extraordinary ones belonged to the tenth legion: those that threw darts and those that threw stones were more forcible and larger than the rest, by which they not only repelled the excursions of the Jews, but drove those away that were upon the walls also.

Now the stones that were cast were of the weight of a talent (1), and were carried two furlongs and further. The blow they gave was no way to be sustained, not only by those that stood first in the way, but by those that were beyond them for a great space. As for the Jews, they at first watched the coming of the stone, for it was of a white color, and could therefore not only be perceived by the great noise it made, but could be seen also before it came by its brightness; accordingly the watchmen that sat upon the towers gave them notice when the engine was let go, and the stone came from it, and cried out aloud, in their own country language, THE STONE COMETH so those that were in its way stood off, and threw themselves down upon the ground; by which means, and by their thus guarding themselves, the stone fell down and did them no harm. But the Romans contrived how to prevent that by blacking the stone, who then could aim at them with success, when the stone was not discerned beforehand, as it had been till then; and so they destroyed many of them at one blow. Yet did not the Jews, under all this distress, permit the Romans to raise their banks in quiet; but they shrewdly and boldly exerted themselves, and repelled them both by night and by day.

"The missiles shot by the catapults, stone-throwers, and "quick-firers" flew all over the temple, killing priests and worshipers at the very altar itself. For despite war, the sacrifices went on..." (Josephus - The Essential Writings p.329)

"All the Roman engines were well built, but those belonging to the Tenth legion were most powerful. Their stone -projectors hurled boulders weighing a talent (75-85 pounds) a quarter mile, and the Jews set lookouts on the towers to spot the fired stones which, being white, shone and whizzed as they flew. When they saw the stone discharged, these watchmen would call out,'Sonny's coming!' ("The stone" in Hebrew is ha-eben, which is easily corrupted to ha-ben, "the son.") - at which those in the line of fire dropped down to let the stone pass through harmlessly. When it occurred to the Romans to blacken them, the stones were more effective, destroying many with a single shot." (p.340)


PRETERIST PERSPECTIVES

1. "The missiles shot by the catapults, stone-throwers, and "quick-firers" flew all over the temple, killing priests and worshipers at the very altar itself. For despite war, the sacrifices went on..." (Josephus - The Essential Writings, Paul L. Maier translator, p.329)




Roman Ballista



The Roman ballista shot stones, up to 160 pounds in weight, at an angle of about 50 degrees over an average range of 300 to 500 yards. (p.299)

"All the Roman engines were well built, but those belonging to the Tenth legion were most powerful. Their stone -projectors hurled boulders weighing a talent (75-85 pounds) a quarter mile, and the Jews set lookouts on the towers to spot the fired stones which, being white, shone and whizzed as they flew. When they saw the stone discharged, these watchmen would call out, 'Sonny's coming!' ("The stone" in Hebrew is ha-eben, which is easily corrupted to ha-ben, "the son.") - at which those in the line of fire dropped down to let the stone pass through harmlessly. When it occurred to the Romans to blacken them, the stones were more effective, destroying many with a single shot." (p.340)



Cannonball-shaped stones such as these, found in Jerusalem, were hurled by the Roman catapults at the Jews, holed up in the Holy City. (The Topical Josephus, Cleon L. Rogers Jr., p.180)



1. Rev 16:21.

"And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great." (Revelation 16:19-21, KJV)

"As with the other plagues of Revelation, imagery is borrowed from the plagues that were brought upon Egypt by Moses. (In the current case, the seventh plague: Exodus 9:18-26). The plague of hailstones also calls up associations with "the large stones from heaven" that God threw down upon the Canaanites when the Land was being conquered under Joshua (Josh. 10:11); as Deborah sang, the very stars of heaven make war against the enemies of God (Jud. 5:20)." - The Days Of Vengeance, Chilton, p. 417

"And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great." (Revelation 16:19-21, KJV)

"I wouldn't recommend starting a negotiation by calling the other side "Miserable creatures", but then I assume Josephus knew what he was doing."


Preterist Perspectives on Josephus' Wars of the Jews @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

Here is the complete link, (EXCELLENT MATERIAL!):

Preterist Perspectives on Josephus' Wars of the Jews @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism