Matthew 23:37

[Iosias]

Does this verse show that God desires to save all those who hear the preaching of the gospel? In this verse Jesus Christ is rebuking a stubborn and rebellious nation and I agree with Calvin that it “is expressive of indignation rather than compassion.” Just look at the context of the verse! Earlier in the chapter we read of Christ denouncement: “woe unto you”, “fools and blind”, “blind guides”, “Ye serpents, generation of vipers”, and then immediately after verse 37 we read the declaration of judgment upon Jerusalem “Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.” Chapter 24 is the Olivet discourse which foretells of the destruction of the temple and of Jerusalem. As is plain, the context of the verse is such that I say it must be a rebuke, a summary of the charge against Jerusalem. Calvin correctly points out how “we must…observe the vehemence of the discourse.” God sent prophet after prophet to the nation of Israel and what did they do? They killed them, they stoned them to death. This obstinacy was the result of the natural man to the word of God. Yes God is willing to save all who repent yet the intent of this phrase here serves to highlight the stubbornness, their haughty distain, their inexcusable ingratitude towards God’s constant and interrupted advances to them through the prophets. So the verse ends “ye would not”, it was not that God did not make it known what they must do but rather their damnation lied at their own door. So I say that this verse shows not that God desires the salvation of all who hear the gospel but rather it teaches the justness of God in punishing unbelief and the context teaches that this verse is an indignant rebuke of a rebellious stiff-necked people.

 

[GustheMule]

I think it teaches Free Will!!!! But i'm also convinced the scriptures teach predestiantion. I'm still trying to figure out how it all works out. But I think it has to do with God knowing how his creation-and new creation-- would respond to any given event perfectly. I'm still thinking about this alot. A few months ago I bit inot Calvinism hook, line, and sinker. But now I'm beginning to see how Calvinists too, sometimes bend the texts to read suit their theology.

 

[Iosias]

But I think it has to do with God knowing how his creation-and new creation-- would respond to any given event perfectly.

Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone however what you say here would mean that we are saved by our foreseen faith and this is not grace but we are saved by what we do ourselves!

 

[GustheMule]

Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone however what you say here would mean that we are saved by our foreseen faith and this is not grace but we are saved by what we do ourselves!

The idea that faith, or baptism, or the eucharist, or prayer, is a work is nonscriptural! Paul is talking about trying to keep the law! Calvinists (I'm a Spurgeon Calvinist) are confused when they call this stuff work. I know, I know ... "this is the work of God, that tehy believe in the one he sent." But what Jesus is doing here is contrasting faith and works. Faith and works really are different! Faith is not a work, although faith w/o works is dead! true faith is me putting my trust in what Jesus DID and who He IS. That is not a work. The contrast is not do something or nothing, the contrast is keep the law or trust God. Whoever trusts in Him wil never be put to shame. Nowhere does it specifically say that there is ever a time when faith cannot be exercised. The idea of "saving faith" or "evangelical repentance" is just not in the Bible. Now there are some who put their faith in a nonexistent God who does not require holiness. That is where problems arise.

Look, when Paul was pursued by God and converted it doesn't mean that a kid who grew up in the church and who has been taught about Jesus from day one will have to have a similar experience to be converted unless he turns his back on the faith. I really do disagree with this high Calvinism that arose in the 1700's that said that everyone must have an experience like this or they aren't elect. Its just not Biblical.