Mathematical Formulas In Nature - Absolute Proof Of Creation

Shemjaza · May 16, 2025

Emergent mathematical representation of patterns show that small simple processes can create larger pieces of emergent order... this is the opposite of proof for conscious control of nature.

It's like how thermodynamics allow for order to come out of chaos in examples like Crystals.

SelfSim · May 16, 2025

Shemjaza said:
Emergent mathematical representation of patterns show that small simple processes can create larger pieces of emergent order... this is the opposite of proof for conscious control of nature.

It's like how thermodynamics allow for order to come out of chaos in examples like Crystals.

Yes .. In the case of Sunflower growth, (such as the position of its sprouting florets), the pattern is simply produced by the plant's hormones:

'... along a central axis containing various concentrations of biochemicals, such as the plant hormone auxin. Differences in these concentrations can influence where, around the circumference of that central axis, a flower, bract, or leaf bud will form. Mechanical forces, like pressure from other growing parts, can also shape the location of bud formation'.

As mentioned in that article, the simple principle is that these growth hormones get distributed in order to influence whatever comes next, by the simplest consistent means of whatever came before. This is the same for a nautilus shell, etc.

The plant has no idea about the existence of a Fibonacci series .. nor of the numbers it portrays, (where the numbers used were actually a product of Hindu culture and beliefs).

The pattern is simply cause and effect in biology (as result of eons of Evolutionary trial and error)..

Hans Blaster · May 16, 2025

Joseph G said:
From: Log into Facebook

MATHEMATICAL FORMULAS IN NATURE...ABSOLUTE PROOF OF CREATION

View attachment 365084

Plants and many other things in nature are keyed to various involved mathematical formulas, one of which is the Fibonacci series. Leonardo of Pisa, nicknamed Fibonacci (c. 1170-1230 A. D.) discovered this particular formula.It begins with: 0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,... and runs onward, with each number the sum of the previous two numbers (8 + 13 = 21, 13 + 21 = 34, etc.). This series is to be found in the reproduction of male bees, the number of spiral floret formations visible in many sunflowers, spiraled scales on pine cones and pineapples, the arrangement of leaves on twigs, as well as many other structures. If you were to look downward from above on a tree trunk, you would find that the branches emerge in accordance with the Fibonacci pattern. One will issue from the trunk at a certain point, the next one above it will emerge on a different side of the tree at a point in relation to the series. Gaze into a sunflower head and you will clearly see the Fibonacci series in the manner in which the seeds are arranged; there you see lines spiraling outward. Look sideways at a closed pine cone and you will see the series spiraling around the cone...ONLY COULD THIS MATHEMATICAL FORMULA EXIST WITH A CREATOR'S INTELLIGENCE, OUR GOD THE GOD OF THE BIBLE!

Instead of just parroting some thing you saw on Zuck's co-ed rating site, you could actually bother to find out why things that grow by adding new things at the center and spreading out.

The simple answer is that Fibonacci spirals (in 2D) provide the most effective packing for thing that grow by inserting new, small things at the center and spreading out. This is true of the sunflower head, the pinecone. It is also true of tight patterns of leaves competing for light also often emerge in Fibonacci spirals. (Other patterns for leaf alternation on branches include alternation.

It's just math, not divine intervention or design.

Joseph G said:
I have added a photo of a cross section of a rattlesnake rattle. A fascinating example of God's sacred geometry. Mathematical formulas, once again, do not exist without intelligence.

View attachment 365085

○○○○

And that Intelligence has a Name - Jesus! God bless us all who do, and shall, believe and obey Him. The glory is His alone!

I'm not sure what is supposed to be special about this one. All we get from you is some invocation to "obey". I decline.

BCP1928 · May 16, 2025

Joseph G said:
The formula's existence preceeded Fibonacci's perception of it...

1 Corinthians 2:9 NKJV
"But as it is written:
"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

biblegateway.com

What you are arguing here is mathematical realism which, even if you succeed, brings you no closer to demonstrating the existence of God.

AV1611VET · May 16, 2025

Hans Blaster said:
The simple answer is that Fibonacci spirals (in 2D) provide the most effective packing for thing that grow by inserting new, small things at the center and spreading out. This is true of the sunflower head, the pinecone. It is also true of tight patterns of leaves competing for light also often emerge in Fibonacci spirals. (Other patterns for leaf alternation on branches include alternation.

Congratulations.

You figured out how God created it to run.

Hans Blaster said:
It's just math, not divine intervention or design.

You sure about that?

Joseph G · May 16, 2025

AV1611VET said:
Psalm 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

The obverse would reveal the inexplicable reality of a so-called lover of science who would fail to see cause and effect when it's right before their proverbial nose, eh?

Smacks more of a worshipper of man's incredibly inferior intellect compared to Almighty God. Any self-delusion to escape accountability.

Said with all due respect, of course...

biblegateway.com

AV1611VET · May 16, 2025

Joseph G said:
The obverse would reveal the inexplicable reality of a so-called lover of science who would fail to see cause and effect when it's right before their proverbial nose, eh?

Smacks more of a worshipper of man's incredibly inferior intellect compared to Almighty God. Any self-delusion to escape accountability.

Said with all due respect, of course...

biblegateway.com

I just watched this short video.

It's amazing!

Joseph G · May 16, 2025

AV1611VET said:
I just watched this short video.

It's amazing!

Excellent vid, AV! I would love to have heard the guy's rejoinder. But, alas, I'm sure that someone else who limits God to what he can perceive in his 3 lb. brain will be along shortly! *big grin*

AV1611VET · May 16, 2025

Joseph G said:
Excellent vid, AV!

It sure is! Did you read the comments afterwards?

Joseph G said:
I would love to have heard the guy's rejoinder.

Me too.

Joseph G said:
But, alas, I'm sure that someone else who limits God to what he can perceive in his 3 lb. brain will be along shortly! *big grin*

Ya ... I'd love to see an attempt at a rebuttal of that!

SelfSim · May 16, 2025

Joseph G said:
Excellent vid, AV! I would love to have heard the guy's rejoinder. But, alas, I'm sure that someone else who limits God to what he can perceive in his 3 lb. brain will be along shortly! *big grin*

Easy .. the dude claiming that God is outside of time, space and matter, just demonstrated how his (~2lb) brain comes up with that model .. ie: by using the brain he claims is too small to conceive of that model and then go on to worship it.

Joseph G · May 16, 2025

AV1611VET said:
It sure is! Did you read the comments afterwards?

Yes! More than one claims a life-changing experience after viewing. Not surprising, "God inhabits the praise of His people!"

AV1611VET said:
Ya ... I'd love to see an attempt at a rebuttal of that!

I actually found the whole debate, but don't want to post without watching first. It's 2+ hours long.

3 against 1. Hmm... kinda like the ratio on this fine forum, huh? Would forward to you but can't pm you. If you do a YouTube search on 'kent hovind vs reinhold schlieter' it will be the first to pop up. Enjoy, Dr. Hovind kicks it off with a bang (ironic pun intended)!

Joseph G · May 16, 2025

SelfSim said:
Easy .. the dude claiming that God is outside of time, space and matter, just demonstrated how his (~2lb) brain comes up with that model .. ie: by using the brain he claims is too small to conceive of that model and then go on to worship it.

Sounds like the reasoning of one stuck in an infinite loop - kinda like a hamster in a wheel.

Actually, the Dr's source of revelation is not limited to his own reasoning power (however impressive his or any of ours may be) as he readily reveals. Superior wisdom derives from divinely inspired Holy Scripture and as interpreted by the Holy Spirit to man - through faith. Faith based on experience of walking in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Proverbs 2:6 KJV
"For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding."

If man were the source of all knowledge, then 1) why can he only mimic what already exists, and 2) why didn't Adam create, say, a computer? Why the delay in the ever unfolding increase in technological achievement over the centuries?

biblegateway.com

Hans Blaster · May 17, 2025

Joseph G said:
Yes! More than one claims a life-changing experience after viewing. Not surprising, "God inhabits the praise of His people!"

I actually found the whole debate, but don't want to post without watching first. It's 2+ hours long.

3 against 1. Hmm... kinda like the ratio on this fine forum, huh? Would forward to you but can't pm you. If you do a YouTube search on 'kent hovind vs reinhold schlieter' it will be the first to pop up. Enjoy, Dr. Hovind kicks it off with a bang (ironic pun intended)!

Hmm. "Dr." Kent Hovind. I'm sure that's a doozy of a face palm. I'm surprised any one take he remotely seriously.

Apple Sky · May 17, 2025

Is not all this called 'The Golden Ratio', God's finger print ?

Joseph G · May 17, 2025

Hans Blaster said:
Hmm. "Dr." Kent Hovind. I'm sure that's a doozy of a face palm. I'm surprised any one take he remotely seriously.

Generally one with a doctorate is conferred upon the privilege of identifying as a Dr.

If the argument is devastating and defies logical rebuttal, what does a title mean anyway?

A carpenter and a few fishermen from ~ 2000 years ago come to mind. Hmm...

Yep, you guessed it. Whose stories are found right here: biblegateway.com

Hans Blaster · May 17, 2025

Joseph G said:
Generally one with a doctorate is conferred upon the privilege of identifying as a Dr.

If the argument is devastating and defies logical rebuttal, what does a title mean anyway?

It is a fraudulent doctorate from a fake "university". He deserves no such respect.

Joseph G · May 17, 2025

Apple Sky said:
Is not all this called 'The Golden Ratio', God's finger print ?

Sounds like it, according to: Golden ratio - Wikipedia

Excerpt:

"The golden ratio appears in some patterns in nature, including the spiral arrangement of leaves and other parts of vegetation."

As for other info about 'The Golden Ratio', beats the ⁠φ

⁠or ⁠ϕ

outta me. It's all Greek to me (pun intended). Cheers!⁠

Apple Sky · May 17, 2025

Joseph G said:
As for other info about 'The Golden Ratio', beats the ⁠φ

⁠or ⁠ϕ

outta me. It's all Greek to me (pun intended). Cheers!⁠

Math's is all Greek to me, absolutely hopeless at it

Joseph G · May 17, 2025

Hans Blaster said:
It is a fraudulent doctorate from a fake "university". He deserves no such respect.

Who gives a rip? One man's accredited is another man's unaccredited. Nobody eventually discredited Edison or Einstein for being drop-outs, did they?

Your, or my, respect is irrelevant to his argument. Have you got a rebuttal, or no?

Acts 4:13 KJV
"Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus."

Warden_of_the_Storm · May 17, 2025

Joseph G said:
Who gives a rip? One man's accredited is another man's unaccredited. Nobody eventually discredited Edison or Einstein for being drop-outs, did they?

Your, or my, respect is irrelevant to his argument. Have you got a rebuttal, or no?

Acts 4:13 KJV
"Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus."

Kent Hovind is no way in the same category as Peter and John.

Mathematical Formulas In Nature - Absolute Proof Of Creation

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