Uphill Battle
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evidence?Salome, the mother of James and John, is one of Joseph's daughters. It is one of the reasons she has the boldness to ask of Christ (her little step brother) that her sons be given the places at His left and right hand in His kingdom.
John
Did you read through the thread?
Sadly I get this, Picard.There are FOUR LIGHTS!
lets see who else is a geek.
From Gods word!Yes.
But did you read my post? I mean truly read it and try to understand it. If you had then you would understand my post. Since you did not you are as still without understanding. This means you must do as the Bible tells you to do. And what is this?
Ans: To keep both oral and written traditions.
No one can fully understand the Bible with out the oral Traditions. Period.
Know the traditions and you know the Word of God. Foresake the Oral Traditions and do so at your own peril. I am sure the devil wants people to overlook this little bit of scripture in their Sola Scriptura worlds.
Peace,
Jack
From Gods word!
John 19:25 (New King James Version)
25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene
Compared to Mark 15:
40Some women were watching from a distance. Among them were 4.)Mary Magdalene, 3.)Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and 2.) Salome.
So including 1.)Mary, Christ mother that'd be 4.
God's Word says to keep oral tradition as well as written tradition.
The Bible needs the Oral Traditions passed on from the Father's of the church.
2 Peter
3:15. And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation: as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you
3:16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.
* It was said that Paul's writings without first being educated on them could lead to your own destruction.
1 Peter
1:25. But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel hath been preached unto you.
* The word was preached and not read. The church was without any writings of the New Testament for at least 10 years after Christ died on the cross. Paul who wrote fourteen of the Books in the NT were not even started until after Paul came to the Catholic Church.
Acts 20
20:35. I have showed you all things, how that so labouring you ought to support the weak and to remember the word of the Lord Jesus, how he said: It is a more blessed thing to give, rather than to receive.
* Here in Acts 20 we have Paul writing an Oral Tradition that was not part of the Gospels. Again, without the Traditions passed down you will miss much.
John 21
21:25. But there are also many other things which Jesus did which, if they were written every one, the world itself. I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.
* The Bible does not give you all of the teachings of Jesus or the Apostles. So, why would any one claim the Bible is all you need if they know what the Bible teaches?
2 Thessalonians
2:14. Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle.
* Whether by word (meaning spoken word) or by our epistle...
Matthew
23:2. Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
* The "Chair of Moses" and without oral tradition handed down outside of the Bible who could know what is meant here since the Bible does not tell us. Many times the Apostles used sayings that unless you are part of the Catholic Church and/or know it's teachings you will not understand.
2 Thessalonians
3:6. And we charge you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition which they have received of us.
* Apparently someone here thought traditions were important to keep.
Mark
13:31. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my word shall not pass away.
* Being that there is no New Testament at this time, "word" can only mean spoken word. Only with Sola Scriptura can one assume that when ever "word" is written it is the Bible. The Catholic Church did not decide on the 27 books to use until 382 AD. At the time Mark 13 would have been written the Catholic Church would still be using means of the spoken Word more than not.
You can't be saying that contradiction between oral tradition and scripture is settled by oral tradition.
Vatican II's Dei Verbum 2.10 (quoted by the Catechism in CCC 86) explicitly says that the Church's Magisterium is the servant of the Word of God. And while I know that Catholicism doesn't teaching that only Scripture is the Word of God, it is certainly true that Scripture is the Word of God. Therefore, the authority of Scripture is over the Church. You cannot deny this and be an orthodox Christian.
You can't be saying that contradiction between oral tradition and scripture is settled by oral tradition.
Vatican II's Dei Verbum 2.10 (quoted by the Catechism in CCC 86) explicitly says that the Church's Magisterium is the servant of the Word of God.
And while I know that Catholicism doesn't teaching that only Scripture is the Word of God, it is certainly true that Scripture is the Word of God. Therefore, the authority of Scripture is over the Church. You cannot deny this and be an orthodox Christian.
Not settled but understood.
It is true that Scripture is the Word of God as given to inspired men.
But to say any part of God is above another part is wrong.
Your own church says it, your being at odds here Jack...
Vatican II's Dei Verbum 2.10 (quoted by the Catechism in CCC 86) explicitly says that the Church's Magisterium is the servant of the Word of God.
Again....
From Gods word!
John 19:25 (New King James Version)
25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene
So you got it right, but the groups of scholars from 10 different translations screwed up and put the comma in?His mother's sister, and Mary wife of Clopus is the same person. If you read the original Greek, you can see this, by the way it is written. A coma was placed there in the English following rule 8 of the use of commas. This mistakenly has been interpreted as rule 1.
Original Greek..
eisthkeisan de para tw staurw tou Ihsou h mhthr autou kai h adelfh ths mhtros autou Maria h tou Klwpa kai Maria h Magdalhnh
Which translates better as..
"but standing beside the Cross of Jesus His mother AND his mother's sister Mary of Clopus AND Mary Magdalene.
kai or "Kai" means and. This is what is used to seperate the various people involved..
Edit: I also just noticed in the English, the 3 people involved are also seperated by the word "and". But like I said, the coma placed between "His mother's sister" and "Mary wife of Clopus" was put there following rule 8 of comas, and has been mistaken for rule 1..
No, what he is stating is that you are reading the passage wrong, which is apparent without even resorting to the Greek.So you got it right, but the groups of scholars from 10 different translations screwed up and put the comma in?
So you got it right, but the groups of scholars from 10 different translations screwed up and put the comma in?
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NASB: Among them was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]GWT: Among them were Mary from Magdala, Mary (the mother of James and Joseph), and the mother of Zebedee's sons. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] KJV: Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedees children. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ASV: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]BBE: Among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary, the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]DBY: among whom was Mary of Magdala, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]WEY: among them being Mary of Magdala, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of the sons of Zabdi.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] WBS: Among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]WEB: Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] YLT: among whom was Mary the Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and of Joses, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.[/FONT]
From Gods word!
John 19:25 (New King James Version)
25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mothers sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene
LOL Oh now this was a hoot. Tee hee. We all are brothers and sisters in the Lord. Not one is higher in the heavenlies.Cant have any relatives who would be the uncles or aunts of God. So Mary has to be an only child.
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