Mary

[Godzman]

Ok why do people pray to someone who was a fallen human like us, she gave birth to Jesus and will forever be thanked by eternity, but will it seriously do us any good to pray to her, when there is only one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ

 

[Wolseley]

Ok why do people pray to someone who was a fallen human like us

A) We don't pray to Mary, we ask Mary to pray for us, just like you'd ask any other Christian to pray for you.

B) We believe that Mary was prevented from inheriting the fallen nature of mankind by special dispensation of God. Your mileage may vary.

will it seriously do us any good to pray to her, when there is only one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ

A) Mary is not a mediator, she is an intercessor. There is only one Mediator, but there can be any number of intercessors.

B) 1 Timothy 2:5 is best understood within the context of other Scriptural passages describing the Mediator, such as Hebrews 12:24. From these passages, it can be clearly seen that 1 Timothy 2:5 does not mean that Jesus is the only one taking our prayers to God; what it means is that Jesus is the only one bringing God's covenant to us.

Does this help?

 

[martinluther2003]

At what point did the protestant denominations begin to shun mary?

 

[Acceptance]

At what point did the protestant denominations begin to shun mary?

yeah, why is this? HELLO?! She is the mother of God!! I'd rather have her asking Jesus for a favor for me than, say, oh I don't know...anyone!

 

[Acceptance]

BTW: I've found a common protestant misinterpretation of the word pray to mean the same as worship.
​

 

[Peter]

Protestants began shunning Mary only over the last 150 years, give or take a couple decades.
Luther, Calvin and Zwingli all held Mary in very high regard. All three agreed that having a proper view of Mary protected a proper view of her son.

Peace.

Peter

 

[Godzman]

Protestants began shunning Mary only over the last 150 years, give or take a couple decades.
Luther, Calvin and Zwingli all held Mary in very high regard. All three agreed that having a proper view of Mary protected a proper view of her son.

Peace.

Peter

Ok I will agree Mary is blessed, many will call her bless, but Jesus is who I place my firm foundation on, interceding sounds great, but I am sure you need to be careful about that, because it could become praying to them instead of praying alongside them.

 

[Acceptance]

Godzman wrote:

but I am sure you need to be careful about that, because it could become praying to them instead of praying alongside them.

Well, actually not really. If you ask your friend to pray for you, do you have to be careful you don't start praying to your friend? It's the same thing, except we ask someone in higher favor with God to pray for us.

 

[Godzman]

Godzman wrote:


Well, actually not really. If you ask your friend to pray for you, do you have to be careful you don't start praying to your friend? It's the same thing, except we ask someone in higher favor with God to pray for us.

it is when the Saints are seen as above us that worries me. Because the bible calls all saints, so I don't know where the Catholic church stands on that. They intercede for us but we don't need to pray to them directly, for we can go to the Almighty directly, their prayers are for us, so they are already praying for us.

I go to God not the saints, I believe the saints of the past should be honored, and revered but never prayed to, which seems to be popular in the ancient churches of today

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Mary was blessed... sure.. we all were.

The only way to the father is through Jesus Christ.
Sorry boys and Girls, but people who are dead have no connection to us, whether they were priest or not.

The only reason why Jesus was special was because he ahnded over the Holy Spirit which is the ONLY way to communicate to God.
Mary, and whoever else you can think of does not have a holy spirit, thier spirit is not in this world any longer.

We should have the Holy Spirit help us pray. ANything else is purly idolatry.

 

[Miss Shelby]

The only reason why Jesus was special was because he ahnded over the Holy Spirit which is the ONLY way to communicate to God.
Mary, and whoever else you can think of does not have a holy spirit, thier spirit is not in this world any longer.

Ummm...wrong. The reason that Jesus was special is because He was the Word Incarnate who became man and dwelt among us. He was human and divine, and He suffered so that we might be redeemed

We should have the Holy Spirit help us pray. ANything else is purly idolatry.

This is a false charge.

Michelle

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

I know God manifested the word of God, that is another reason why he was special.

"We should have the Holy Spirit help us pray. ANything else is purly idolatry."

"This is a false charge."

I would like to see sctipture backing your statment.

Cause as far as I know, we are to pray to God... And that the holy spirit helps us
Jude 20 states that we are to pray in the Holy Spirit.

Mathew 6:9 Tells us how to pray

"Our Father, who is in heaven
Hallowed be Your name"

Sorry... it's not MARY's hallowed name, but God Himself.

Paul gives us many models of prayer aside from the Lord Prayer...
Where is mary mentioned?? Where is EVER mentioned that others who are passed away can help us pray??

 

[Miss Shelby]

The Bible says that we are all parts of one body, the Body of Christ, and that we are to pray for one another. Your contention is that the millions of people who are fully alive in Christ at this moment in Heaven...are dead. Please show me where that is in Scripture.

If you don't want to ask the Saints in Heaven to pray for you, that is your perogative and I will not tell you that you are wrong. However, I think you are limiting your resources immensely.

Michelle

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Once dead in our flesh and our soul is in heaven, we wll have no connection to earth... that is the point that I am trying to make.

We will be worshiping God while in heaven while HE takes care of those on earth.

To be in heaven and dwell of things on earth is impossible.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Once dead in our flesh and our soul is in heaven, we wll have no connection to earth... that is the point that I am trying to make.

And I would like to see Scripture that confirms this point you contend.

We will be worshiping God while in heaven while HE takes care of those on earth.

You better believe it, brother! And a hearty AMEN if I may.

To be in heaven and dwell of things on earth is impossible.

Chapter and verse, thank you.

Michelle

 

[Godzman]

if they don't pray to mary then why do they pray blessed mother, she is Jesus's mother not ours. She was a key to Gods divinge plan, a critical one at that, I just don't believe she is the Queen of Heaven, I heard that before.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Once dead in our flesh and our soul is in heaven, we wll have no connection to earth... that is the point that I am trying to make.

We will be worshiping God while in heaven while HE takes care of those on earth.

To be in heaven and dwell of things on earth is impossible.

One charge made against it is that the saints in heaven cannot even hear our prayers, making it useless to ask for their intercession. However, this is not true. As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

Some might try to argue that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them!

In any event, it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding.

"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Tim. 2:5).

But asking one person to pray for you in no way violates Christ’s mediatorship, as can be seen from considering the way in which Christ is a meditor. First, Christ is a unique mediator between man and God because he is the only person who is both God and man. He is the only bridge between the two, the only God-man. But that role as mediator is not compromised in the least by the fact that others intercede for us. Furthermore, Christ is a unique mediator between God and man because he is the Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15, 12:24), just as Moses was the mediator (Greek mesites) of the Old Covenant (Gal. 3:19–20).

The intercession of fellow Christians—which is what the saints in heaven are—also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others something "good and pleasing to God," not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

if they don't pray to mary then why do they pray blessed mother, she is Jesus's mother not ours. She was a key to Gods divinge plan, a critical one at that, I just don't believe she is the Queen of Heaven, I heard that before.

John 19:26 - Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying "behold your mother." Jesus did not say "John, behold your mother" because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother.

Rev. 12:17 - this verse proves the meaning of John 19:26. The "woman's" (Mary's) offspring are those who follow Jesus. She is our Mother and we are her offspring in Jesus Christ. The master plan of God's covenant love for us is family. But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.

John 2:3 - this is a very signifcant verse in Scripture. As our mother, Mary tells all of us to do whatever Jesus tells us. Further, Mary's intercession at the marriage feast in Cana triggers Jesus' ministry and a foreshadowing of the Eucharistic celebration of the Lamb. This celebration unites all believers into one famiy through the marriage of divinity and humanity.

John 2:7 - Jesus allows His mother to intercede for the people on His behalf, and responds to His mother's request by ordering the servants to fill the jars with water.

Psalm 45:9 - the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God's kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.

1 Kings 2:17, 20 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen.

1 Kings 2:18 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King's followers. She is the Queen Mother (or "Gebirah"). Mary is our eternal Gebirah.

1 Kings 2:19 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.

1 Kings 15:13 - the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel's royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.

2 Chron. 22:10 - here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.

Neh. 2:6 - the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.

 

[Godzman]

John 19:26 - Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying "behold your mother." Jesus did not say "John, behold your mother" because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother.

it is clear if you read both 26 and 27 that he is talking to John. Not to us, his mother was important to us. Must we exalt Mary, who was not exalted above anybody, yet was there among the disciples at pentecost as one of them and not above any of them.

 

[Acceptance]

What I want to know is where in the bible does it say that we shouldn't ask Mary and the Saints for intercession? If you believe the bible is the only source of Truth (even though when it was compiled by the Catholic church, it was acknowledged that it was not) than the burdan of proof lies on you. Please list verses.