Mary

orthodoxy · Nov 20, 2006

I will now consider any threads in this forum concerning Mary a direct attack on my Christian faith.

All the veiled threads of respect merely turn into attacks and harassment.

kyril

Montanaman · Nov 20, 2006

Likewise, now whenever somebody tells me that Catholics worship Mary, I will consider that person to be calling me a liar.

Oh wait--I already do that.

MikeK · Nov 20, 2006

If you think that a particular thread is "harassment" or a "direct assault on your faith", why read it?

Tinker Grey · Nov 20, 2006

How do you distinguish between honest questions and attacks?

Montanaman · Nov 20, 2006

Tinker Grey said:
How do you distinguish between honest questions and attacks?

Honest questions aren't followed by endless cut-and-pastes from anti-Catholic web sites. An honest question about our relationship with Mary might be followed up with "Hmm, seems like there might be a contradiction there. Can you please explain XYZ?"

Attacks are usually easy to spot--after you've given an answer, if your interlocutor keeps throwing stuff at you hoping something will stick, chances are, it's an attack.

In a perfect world, "we don't worship Mary" would be enough. We don't ask everyone to accept, believe and celebrate our Marian doctrines, but if people are going to keep telling us what we "really" believe, we at least ask them save us some time and just call us liars.

CrusaderKing · Nov 20, 2006

I think the real issue is that non-Catholics and non-Orthodox spend a bit too much time focusing on Mary in threads. This is really based on what I've seen. I generally attempt to avoid such debates unless there's a glaring point I need to make i.e. letting people know they should be praying directly to God anyway. Since we already do this, I don't see the problem.

The real issue, or at least what I think is the real issue, is the lack of understanding of how Catholicism and Orthodoxy views Mary, or even the saints in general. It is indeed true that every person in heaven is a saint. That said, it would likely be impossible to count them all. The canon list of saints kept by our churches holds up particular individuals as examples. While it is not required to pray that these saints intercede for you, it certainly does not hurt you as long as you remember that it is really all about your relationship with God.

But beyond praying for intercession, it is also good to read about the lives of the saints. If ever you are in doubt, their examples are incredibly powerful.

Montanaman · Nov 20, 2006

I've put Marian issues on my "Generally Don't Bother" list. It's unofficially called the "To Hell With It" list. It includes:

Marian doctrines.

Birth control, abortion, homosexuality, masturbation (anything having to do with anything in your pants, basically.)

End Times prophecy.

Inquisition

Paris Hilton

The reason is that these are highly emotional topics that require a lot of groundwork to be understood properly. Since the average attention span of a frequent forum poster is .03 seconds (I include myself in that), there's no point in making long, detailed cases for one of these issues. It'll just be ignored anyway.

So, that's why I say to just call us liars. I think the honesty will be refreshing, and could kick off a whole new era of understanding and dialogue.

orthodoxy · Nov 20, 2006

CrusaderKing said:
I think the real issue is that non-Catholics and non-Orthodox spend a bit too much time focusing on Mary in threads. This is really based on what I've seen. I generally attempt to avoid such debates unless there's a glaring point I need to make i.e. letting people know they should be praying directly to God anyway. Since we already do this, I don't see the problem.

The real issue, or at least what I think is the real issue, is the lack of understanding of how Catholicism and Orthodoxy views Mary, or even the saints in general. It is indeed true that every person in heaven is a saint. That said, it would likely be impossible to count them all. The canon list of saints kept by our churches holds up particular individuals as examples. While it is not required to pray that these saints intercede for you, it certainly does not hurt you as long as you remember that it is really all about your relationship with God.

But beyond praying for intercession, it is also good to read about the lives of the saints. If ever you are in doubt, their examples are incredibly powerful.

They hate....and when confronted they report as if they were innocent....

orthodoxy · Nov 20, 2006

Tinker Grey said:
How do you distinguish between honest questions and attacks?

I find few questions genuine but veiled attempts to entrap and accuse, quite pharisitically ever questioning and never learning.

Fact is "I believe in Jesus". My dogma on Mary does not make me less a christian.

Those that dont understand Mary imply those that do are not Christians. Intolerant hypocrasy? oh yea

kyril

Tinker Grey · Nov 20, 2006

orthodoxy said:
I find few questions genuine but veiled attempts to entrap and accuse, quite pharisitically ever questioning and never learning.

I'm not understanding your syntax here. Are you saying that you find most questions genuine while a few are attempts to entrap, or vice versa?

Fact is "I believe in Jesus". My dogma on Mary does not make me less a christian.

Those that dont understand Mary imply those that do are not Christians. Intolerant hypocrasy? oh yea

kyril

I agree with you.

Yeznik · Nov 20, 2006

orthodoxy said:
I will now consider any threads in this forum concerning Mary a direct attack on my Christian faith.

All the veiled threads of respect merely turn into attacks and harassment.

kyril

I have aways thought as such. In all ancients Churches she is accepted as our mother, so when someone attacks Mary, she is attacking my personal mother, and the mother of my Savior. I wonder how many Protestants walk around discussing their own mothers sex life in open forum let alone in Church. I wonder how many Protestants have the nerve to ask their Pastors about the Pastor mothers sex life. Yet Protestants attack the mother of the Ultimate Pastor without reverence or respect. I wonder if they would actually ask Christ about His mothers personal life.

Zeena · Nov 20, 2006

I think it's prudent to stay off the subject..

1 Corinthians 11:17
Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.

1 Corinthians 11:18
For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

1 Corinthians 14:26
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

So as not to cause offense..

MikeK · Nov 21, 2006

I wonder how many Protestants walk around discussing their own mothers sex life in open forum let alone in Church. I wonder how many Protestants have the nerve to ask their Pastors about the Pastor mothers sex life. Yet Protestants attack the mother of the Ultimate Pastor without reverence or respect. I wonder if they would actually ask Christ about His mothers personal life.

To be fair, if I stated that my (earthly) mother was a virgin, I would expect to here some questions about it from others. In speaking of Mary the Virgin, it is we who first bring up her sex life or lack thereof.

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