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IamAdopted

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Jesus said to do this because they were the leading government at the time. We are instructed to obey those in authority over us. Paul also instructs us to do this. If our government tells us we have to have insurance we do. We are to obey the government. But He also said do not do as they do. We come from a higher calling and that is Christ. Not the calling of man. They follow tradtions the believers followed Christ. Tradtions are not what we are called to follow. Never were. We were called to live by every word that Proceeds out of the mouth of God. This is why Jesus said not to do as they do. Obey the law but do not become as they are and follow after tradtion.
 
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IamAdopted

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See answer above. When Jesus came He brought us a new covenant. His blood. A Higher calling. When it comes to following the authority placed over us we are told to obey. When it comes to live the way for Christ we are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Not tradtion. Jesus nor none of His followers ever sat in the seat of Moses. For we are not called to Lord it over one another but to submit to one another. Our King and Our Lord sits on His throne on the right hand side of the Father. we are from above as Jesus is from above. Our rule is from Christ. Therefore when we are instructed to obey our rulers here on earth because of our obedience to Christ we submit. If it came down to obeying God or the rule of Man we are told to obey God rather than man. This is why Jesus told them to do what they say but not to do as they do. Very simple really.
 
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IamAdopted

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Jesus had nothing good to say about these that sat upon the seat of Moses. So repentant do you think He would say anything less now for those whom set theirselves up as leaders and follow tradtion?
 
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Davidnic

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We were called to live by every word that Proceeds out of the mouth of God. This is why Jesus said not to do as they do. Obey the law but do not become as they are and follow after tradtion.

Christ did not say that every word from God would be written in Scripture. And Paul flatly shows that it is not by distinguishing between written and spoken instruction and saying to follow both.

Many of these discussions on Mary have left the topic of Mary and come to a Scripture/Tradition debate.
 
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IamAdopted

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Now which book do you think will be handed to them? God has had men Pen what it is we need to fully equip us. To correct us. Paul even used the scriptures. We are to follow His tradtion right?
As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
 
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Davidnic

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Of course Paul used Scripture, no one said he did not.

This (your sections quoted above) is not speaking against Tradition. This is speaking against Tradition without God active in your life. It is speaking against tradition that removes from it the worship of God in any substantial way and replaces it with vain practices. That has nothing to do with Mary or the Catholic or Orthodox teaching on her.
 
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repentant

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You totally missed the point..
 
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repentant

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Jesus had nothing good to say about these that sat upon the seat of Moses. So repentant do you think He would say anything less now for those whom set theirselves up as leaders and follow tradtion?

Jesus said do as they say, not what the do, because they do not practice what they preach. The only bad thing He said, was they were hypocrites. But He never said do not listen to them, on the contrary, He said obey them...
 
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IamAdopted

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Jesus said do as they say, not what the do, because they do not practice what they preach. The only bad thing He said, was they were hypocrites. But He never said do not listen to them, on the contrary, He said obey them...
He gave out 7 woes to them Repentant.. He did not have nice things to say about them at all. I don't think Jesus was blessing them do you?
 
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repentant

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3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach

Did you miss the bolded part?

And I said He called them hypocrites, didn't I..?

Also this leadership was passed on to the Church..

Acts 16:4
As they traveled from town to town, they delivered the decisions reached by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem for the people to obey


Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.
 
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IamAdopted

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The seat of Moses was the Law. Jesus fulfilled the Law. He now sits on the throne. Not Peter not Paul not any human being but Christ.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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The seat of Moses was the Law. Jesus fulfilled the Law. He now sits on the throne. Not Peter not Paul not any human being but Christ.

Jesus has been on that throne since before Adam and until the end of time. At the end of time he will come and judge us all.

But until that time Jesus has given the Keys of the Kingdom to the Church and they are being held by the Vicar of Christ.

This vicar of Christ was Peter at first. This established the Seat of Peter and we have a dynastic succession of holders of the Keys since Peter and that line goes to the Pope today.

Moses seat is no longer used since Christ because Moses Law was not full of Grace and the Truth. Since Jesus we have Infallible teachings and these teachings are protected by the Spirit of Truth throuugh Jesus' church on Earth in Physical and Spiritual form. This is because the bride of Christ is alive.
 
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Benedicta00

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The seat of Moses was the Law. Jesus fulfilled the Law. He now sits on the throne. Not Peter not Paul not any human being but Christ.
Well we don't think they sit on a throne, just in their apostolic seats of authority.

Luke


This ah, pretty much contradicts you straight up.

There is other parts in scripture too also that shows the apostolic office and succession.

When you put all the parts together, it gives a very distinct picture.

Like, "he who hears you, hears me..."
 
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Benedicta00

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And this pretty much is what he was saying with the most misinterpreted bad exegesis verse that's out there.

Matthew 23

Jesus was pretty much telling them that he fulfills Moses seat and he would be instituting the apostolic seats.
 
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IamAdopted

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How does this prove what you said? The throne that we sit in is in the Kingdom of Heaven. Not here on earth. His Kingdom is not of this earth. Never has been. His is of Heaven.
 
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IamAdopted

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The Keys to the Kingdom of God are what? The preaching of the Gospel of Christ. For this is how We enter into the Kingdom of Heaven is by believing In Christ. Jesus gave these Keys to more than just Peter. He gave them to the Apostles. Who preached and wrote the Gospel we have today. Therefore unless the gospel is preached who will believe and be saved? This is the Keys. There is no Vicar of Christ. For He is with us. He has never left us. We as Christians are His ambassadors. To go and tell His message of salvation. There is only one Who sits in rulership and that is Christ. He is the head of His Church and no one else is. Above Christ is God the Father. The Holy Spirit is our comforter and teacher of the word of God. He lives in each of Gods Children. He has put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit
 
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repentant

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The seat of Moses, and Hebrews 13:17 is reference to the authority of those appointed by God to lead the people. The seat of Moses, refer's to the seat of the Chief Priests, established by God..and Hebrews refer's to the Elder's of the Church appointed by the Apostles to lead the people and for them to obey....the Apostles, knowing they would not live forever, needed to appoint people to take their place, and also because the Church was spreading, they needed leader's to lead the people so they will not go astray..
 
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repentant

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ALELLULIA....I actually agree with you for once..
 
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Benedicta00

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How does this prove what you said? The throne that we sit in is in the Kingdom of Heaven. Not here on earth. His Kingdom is not of this earth. Never has been. His is of Heaven.
That's not what Jesus said...

"As the Father has sent me, so I send you... "

And I dispose to you, as my Father hath disposed to me, a kingdom;

30 That you may eat and drink at my table, in my kingdom: and may sit upon thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
 
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IamAdopted

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That's not what Jesus said...

"As the Father has sent me, so I send you... "
He sent the Apostles to go and preach the Good news. So that sinners could be reconciled back to God. The Apostles were the abassadors for Christ. Sent ones. The Kingdom that saints will be gathered around to judge the 12 tribes is In His heavenly Kingdom. Here we see why they were sent. Not as rulers but as Apostles.
 
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