Mary --- Co-Redemptrix

[NoDoubt]

Cardinals Hoping for a 5th Marian Dogma

ROME, FEB. 11, 2008 (Zenit.org).- Five cardinals have sent a letter inviting prelates worldwide to join them in petitioning Benedict XVI to declare a fifth Marian dogma they said would "proclaim the full Christian truth about Mary."

The text, released last week, includes the petition that asks the Pope to proclaim Mary as "the Spiritual Mother of All Humanity, the co-redemptrix with Jesus the redeemer, mediatrix of all graces with Jesus the one mediator, and advocate with Jesus Christ on behalf of the human race."

The signatories of the letter are five of the six cardinal co-sponsors of the 2005 International Symposium on Marian Coredemption, held in Fatima: Cardinal Telesphore Toppo, archbishop of Ranchi, India; Cardinal Luis Aponte Martínez, retired archbishop of San Juan, Puerto Rico; Cardinal Varkey Vithayathil, major archbishop of Ernakulam-Angamaly, India; Cardinal Riccardo Vidal, archbishop of Cebu, Philippines; and Cardinal Ernesto Corripio y Ahumada, retired archbishop of Mexico City.

Cardinal Edouard Gagnon, who died last August, was the sixth cardinal co-sponsor of the 2005 conference. He was the president of the Pontifical Council of the Family from 1974 until he resigned in 1990.

The secretariat of the five cardinal co-patrons released the English translation of the letter, which includes a translation and the original Latin text of the "votum," or petition, that was formulated in 2005 and presented formally to the Pope by Cardinal Telesphore in 2006.

The petition states: "We believe the time opportune for a solemn definition of clarification regarding the constant teaching of the Church concerning the Mother of the Redeemer and her unique cooperation in the work of Redemption, as well as her subsequent roles in the distribution of grace and intercession for the human family."


More Here


"For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth"

...and only He, and that is Jesus Christ

 

[Rhamiel]

Some people can be too zealous in their love for our Lady, but co-redemtrix is not a doctrine of the Church, even though some poeple want it to be, also a proper understanding of co-redemtrix does not put Mary equal to Christ but as a helper, someone who God used in Christs mission to redeem the world, insomuch as Christ was born of Mary, she is how He entered the world and thus plays a vital role in the history of our salvation, I think such a term can easily be misunderstood and should not be used, we do not want to temp people into worshiping Mary

 

[Ormly]

Cardinals Hoping for a 5th Marian Dogma

ROME, FEB. 11, 2008 (Zenit.org).- Five cardinals have sent a letter inviting prelates worldwide to join them in petitioning Benedict XVI to declare a fifth Marian dogma they said would "proclaim the full Christian truth about Mary."

The text, released last week, includes the petition that asks the Pope to proclaim Mary as "the Spiritual Mother of All Humanity, the co-redemptrix with Jesus the redeemer, mediatrix of all graces with Jesus the one mediator, and advocate with Jesus Christ on behalf of the human race."

The signatories of the letter are five of the six cardinal co-sponsors of the 2005 International Symposium on Marian Coredemption, held in Fatima: Cardinal Telesphore Toppo, archbishop of Ranchi, India; Cardinal Luis Aponte Martínez, retired archbishop of San Juan, Puerto Rico; Cardinal Varkey Vithayathil, major archbishop of Ernakulam-Angamaly, India; Cardinal Riccardo Vidal, archbishop of Cebu, Philippines; and Cardinal Ernesto Corripio y Ahumada, retired archbishop of Mexico City.

Cardinal Edouard Gagnon, who died last August, was the sixth cardinal co-sponsor of the 2005 conference. He was the president of the Pontifical Council of the Family from 1974 until he resigned in 1990.

The secretariat of the five cardinal co-patrons released the English translation of the letter, which includes a translation and the original Latin text of the "votum," or petition, that was formulated in 2005 and presented formally to the Pope by Cardinal Telesphore in 2006.

The petition states: "We believe the time opportune for a solemn definition of clarification regarding the constant teaching of the Church concerning the Mother of the Redeemer and her unique cooperation in the work of Redemption, as well as her subsequent roles in the distribution of grace and intercession for the human family."


More Here


"For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth"

...and only He, and that is Jesus Christ

And of course if Benedict XVI says Ok then it will be so and have to be proclaimed as the gospel truth throughout the RCC.

 

[NoDoubt]

And of course if Benedict XVI says Ok then it will be so and have to be proclaimed as the gospel truth throughout the RCC.

I'm looking fowards to his decision. That will be more evidence of the false teachings added to the long list.

If this gets approved, how will this be justified in light of Sripture?

 

[Rhamiel]

If this gets approved, how will this be justified in light of Sripture?

in my post I talked a little about how it should be viewed in the light of scripture, I do not think what the Cardinals used good wording when they wrote that, it is to easy to twist into something it is not ment to be. I tried to explain the proper understanding of devotion to Mary

 

[NoDoubt]

as Christ was born of Mary, she is how He entered the world and thus plays a vital role in the history of our salvation

in my post I talked a little about how it should be viewed in the light of scripture, I do not think what the Cardinals used good wording when they wrote that, it is to easy to twist into something it is not ment to be. I tried to explain the proper understanding of devotion to Mary

Yes. I did get it. I'm just waiting for the pope's decision and how he's going to word it.

 

[Rhamiel]

I do not think it will be made a Dogma, I think it might be encouraged as a personal devotion, meaning that it does not go agianst the Catholic Church but you do not have to believe it to be Catholic.
Also look at it as a devotion, some people are helped, are made to feel closer to Christ, through seeing how God has used Mary brings hope to others Luke 1:46-55 Douay Rheims translation

My soul doth magnify the Lord. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name. And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him. He hath shewed might in his arm: he hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart. He hath put down the mighty from their seat, and hath exalted the humble. He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away. He hath received Israel his servant, being mindful of his mercy: As he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his seed for ever.

it is about how God has done great things for us, Mary is an example of Gods faithfulness and goodness, He is so great and so good sometimes we have trouble understanding it, or how could something as good as God love someone like me? and then we look at the good things he did for Mary, and we remember how much He loves us.
Now I can see how easy it would be for people to mis-use this devotion, I do not use the title co-redemtrix when I talk about Mary, it does not seem right to me, but that is just my personal view, if it is helping others have a closer relationship with Christ then it is good for them

 

[Rhamiel]

Also any new Dogma would hurt efforts to reunite with the Eastern Orthodox or Oriental Orthodox Churches

 

[mont974x4]

How would you change the term "co-redemptrix". It seems pretty straight forward, no twisting required.

 

[Rhamiel]

How would you change the term "co-redemptrix". It seems pretty straight forward, no twisting required.

I read through what the Cardinals wrote, did not put enough enphasis on how Mary is subordanate to Christ, the Lord of all, I do not have a problem with the term co-redemtrix, I do not use it because it could be seen as putting Mary as equal to Christ, when properly understood co-redemtrix means that she is Christs helper, I think making it a dogma would be a mistake, it would hurt reunification with the Orthodox, it would hurt any type of renunification with protestant christians as well, it could be missunderstood by many catholics as putting Mary as Christs equal and we do not want to confuse people.
As a privet devotion, I do not have a problem with it, if looking at Mary as the faithful servant of Christ helps you have a fuller relationship with Him, then devotion to Mary as co-redemtrix is a good thing, I do not hold such a devotion to her because I am weak and the enemy might use my love for our Lady and twist it into idoletry. I do honor and love our Lady, and I hope she prays for me to the Lord, her son Jesus.

 

[Catholic Christian]

This magazine article may be helpful:
Mary, Mother of Salvation
How to Talk to an Evangelical about Mary
By Fr. Dwight Longenecker,
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0712fea1.asp

Father Dwight Longenecker is a former protestant, but now is chaplain to St. Joseph’s Catholic School in Greenville, South Carolina. He is co-author of Mary: A Catholic/Evangelical Debate.

www.dwightlongenecker.com.

 

[Catholic Christian]

I'm looking fowards to his decision. That will be more evidence of the false teachings added to the long list.

If this gets approved, how will this be justified in light of Sripture?

We are all co-redeemers in Christ. Whenever we bring the gospel to somebody, whenever we bring someone to Christ, we have assisted in their redemption - in a way we are co-redeemers. We help save people by bringing Jesus to them. And, Mary brought Jesus to us. This is all this means. Since Mary did more than any other human being in this regard by bearing the Son of God in her womb, I see nothing wrong with calling her co-redemptrix.

 

[Catholic Christian]

....how will this be justified in light of Sripture?

Look at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts. The leaders of the Church - Peter, the apostles and elders - did not consult scripture when deciding doctrine on circumcision. Your question in irrelevant. You should read this:
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0701btb.asp

 

[Rhamiel]

We are all co-redeemers in Christ. Whenever we bring the gospel to somebody, whenever we bring someone to Christ, we have assisted in their redemption - in a way we are co-redeemers.

that is true, but you can understand all the trouble it would make declaring the Mary co-redemtrix, and also it might lead some good catholics into idolworship if they misunderstand the title.
So 1, it might hurt the faith of some catholics
2, it would make reunification with the Orthodox even more unlikely
3 it would hurt our relations with protestant denominations

and we would not really gain anything from it, it is a now a privet devotion, as a catholic you are free to call Mary co-redemtrix, it is even encouraged in many places, I do not use the title because to me it takes honor away from Christ. I honor her as Queen of Heaven and as our Lady. she is the patroness of the Americas, there is a long history of devotions to our Lady, I do not see a need to add this

 

[sunlover1]

that is true, but you can understand all the trouble it would make declaring the Mary co-redemtrix, and also it might lead some good catholics into idolworship if they misunderstand the title.
So 1, it might hurt the faith of some catholics
2, it would make reunification with the Orthodox even more unlikely
3 it would hurt our relations with protestant denominations

and we would not really gain anything from it, it is a now a privet devotion, as a catholic you are free to call Mary co-redemtrix, it is even encouraged in many places, I do not use the title because to me it takes honor away from Christ. I honor her as Queen of Heaven and as our Lady. she is the patroness of the Americas, there is a long history of devotions to our Lady, I do not see a need to add this

VOTE Rhamiel for pope.
Wise man.

 

[Catholic Christian]

that is true, but you can understand all the trouble it would make declaring the Mary co-redemtrix....

What kind of trouble? And who cares? Truth always brings trouble. Look what they did to Jesus. Look how they treat us. If in the future the Church should solemny define this to be dogma, I will say "Amen" and believe. I trust the Holy Spirit.

..it might hurt the faith of some catholics..

Only unfaithful Catholics. We need to shed the dead wood anyway.

..it would make reunification with the Orthodox even more unlikely..

So what: Would you deny truth for the sake of "getting along"?

..it would hurt our relations with protestant denominations..

Oh well... Thats what they told Pius XII when he defined the Assumption. I think you need to reanalyze your reasoning. We don't define dogma based on popularity polls: We define truths because they are true.

 

[Catholic Christian]

Wow. I just found a TON of info at this link:
http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/coredemptrix.asp

 

[Rhamiel]

it is the truth, I do believe it, but I do not think it should be a formal dogma
I think that in my life time we might see an end to the east-west schism, the visable Church will be unified agian, I see this as something that would stop all talks with the Orthodox dead in their tracks.
Also look at the other Marian Dogmas
Mary was bodily assumed into Heaven, fact, her body was taken up to heaven when her time on earth was over.
Mary is Queen of Heaven, this is a fact that has to do with the mother of the King being the queen, we can look at the OT and Sacred Tradtion to prove this
Mary as co-redemtrix is not as strong of a position, as you pointed out, all christians are co-redemers with Christ because we are His servants and try to follow His Will, we try to bring others too him, to make this a dogmatic title of Mary is not really needed, also look at how schismatics in the Church could twist this, most catholics have the proper view of and devotion too Mary, but those who take holy devotion to our Mother and twist it into goddess worship would be strenghened by this move

 

[Catholic Christian]

it is the truth, I do believe it, but I do not think it should be a formal dogma
I think that in my life time we might see an end to the east-west schism, the visable Church will be unified agian, I see this as something that would stop all talks with the Orthodox dead in their tracks.
Also look at the other Marian Dogmas
Mary was bodily assumed into Heaven, fact, her body was taken up to heaven when her time on earth was over.
Mary is Queen of Heaven, this is a fact that has to do with the mother of the King being the queen, we can look at the OT and Sacred Tradtion to prove this
Mary as co-redemtrix is not as strong of a position, as you pointed out, all christians are co-redemers with Christ because we are His servants and try to follow His Will, we try to bring others too him, to make this a dogmatic title of Mary is not really needed, also look at how schismatics in the Church could twist this, most catholics have the proper view of and devotion too Mary, but those who take holy devotion to our Mother and twist it into goddess worship would be strenghened by this move

I'm not saying Rome should or should not define it. I am saying that the reasons you cite - getting along with others, fueling anti-catholic polemists, etc. - are poor reasons not to. Trust the Holy Spirit. If it is true, Rome will define it. If it is God's will, we will reunify with the East irregardless. God is in charge, not us. Whatever the Pope does, I'm sure he will do the right thing: In fact, I know he will.

 

[NoDoubt]

I won't be surprised if it happens. Who else can elevate a human being to a position of divinity and now wants to make her equal to God! Another lie from the pit of hell.


II Thes 2
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name [Jesus Christ] under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.