Mary always a virgin?

[sioleabha]

I asked this in the Catholic forum, but I would like to get a Protestant view on it, as well, if that's ok.

I just read in another thread that Catholics believe that Mary was always a virgin. I vaguely remember something like that from Sunday School. (My mother's family is Catholic, so on the ffew occasions we actually went to church, it was a Catholic church.)

I have a question about this doctrine. When I got married, the pastor (Protestant) told us that it is sinful for us to deny each other sexually. I know that this comes from the New Testament:

1 Corinthians 7:3 - 5 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Did the Jews have no rule like this? Would it really have been considered acceptable for Mary and Joseph to never have sex? Wouldn't that have a serious negative impact on their marriage?

 

[Reformed Baptist]

It's not a matter I really think about often, but since you asked, here's my two cents.

Gal 1:19 "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother."

adelphos
Thayer Definition:

1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother

2) having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman

3) any fellow or man

4) a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection

5) an associate in employment or office

6) brethren in Christ

6a) his brothers by blood

6b) all men

6c) apostles

6d) Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place






I think James was the half brother of Jesus. Origen (245) calls James the brother of Jesus...Apostolic Constitions (compiled 390) called James the brother of Christ...

 

[Svt4Him]

She had sex.

 

[II Paradox II]

Did the Jews have no rule like this? Would it really have been considered acceptable for Mary and Joseph to never have sex? Wouldn't that have a serious negative impact on their marriage?

I think it would have a serious negative impact on my marriage

ken

 

[thereselittleflower]

I posted this in OBOB, but I thought it might be of interest here too:


sioleabha


The link I was thinking of which deals with a rabbinical scholar's take on the perpetual virginity of Mary is here:

http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/talmud.htm


PERPETUAL VIRGINITY OF MARY

This article was written by Brother Anthony M. O****o, M.D., who has been a hermit for the past thirty-one years. He lives in the woods of the Cistercian Abby in Rogersville, New Brunswick. Born in Manila, in the Philippines, he is a physician-surgeon graduate of Loyola University Medical School, Chicago, Illinois (1950). A Scriptural and Rabbinic scholar, he is the author of five books: The Bread of God, The Secret Joy of Repentance, The Revelation of Bethlehem, The Revelation of the Son of Man and The Book of Understanding.

I think you will find this article extremely interesting and informative, and directly to the question you asked.



Let me know if it was helpful!


Peace in Him!

 

[Terri]

Well Sioleabha if Mary remained a virgin she certainly was a very bad wife!!

 

[Andrew]

Rule No. 2 - No "Trolling"

2) You will not post any topic that disrupts the peace and harmony of this forum. This will include any new user with less than 50 posts starting a "discretional" topic - i.e. a topic not suitable for children. This will also include posts that put down Christianity in general or any posts considered as blasphemy by staff (this is a CHRISTIAN FORUMS site), or posts that put down another Christian group or denomination. This includes links to websites in profiles and signatures. You will not post new threads for the sole purpose of soliciting requests for prophecies.

 

[Matrona]

Well Sioleabha if Mary remained a virgin she certainly was a very bad wife!!

I'm sorry, but that's a terrible thing to say about the Virgin Mary, even as a joke.

She bore the true Son of God in her womb. She is the gateway through which our salvation was brought into the world. A woman so holy deserves profound respect.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Just want to read the answers

 

[Svt4Him]

I'm sorry, but that's a terrible thing to say about the Virgin Mary, even as a joke.

She bore the true Son of God in her womb. She is the gateway through which our salvation was brought into the world. A woman so holy deserves profound respect.

She was not holy, nor is it untrue that if she didn't have sex with her husband, she's a bad wife. Not only that, but there were times she was considered unclean. She is no gateway, as another is not needed.

 

[Andrew]

Rule No. 2 - No "Trolling"

2) You will not post any topic that disrupts the peace and harmony of this forum. This will include any new user with less than 50 posts starting a "discretional" topic - i.e. a topic not suitable for children. This will also include posts that put down Christianity in general or any posts considered as blasphemy by staff (this is a CHRISTIAN FORUMS site), or posts that put down another Christian group or denomination. This includes links to websites in profiles and signatures. You will not post new threads for the sole purpose of soliciting requests for prophecies.

 

[Col]

I believe the Bible is pretty clear on this point. Christ was born to a virgin. However after his birth she lived as other mortals which is the way God intended for husband and wife.

Matthew 1
23"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"[1] --which means, "God with us."
24When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

I Know that there is a lot of fuss over this point. People go to great lengths to disprove the previous passage or read other things into it for one reason or another.

I think if she was to have remained a virgin (for whatever reason) such a dramatic choice or command by God would have certainly rated a mention somewhere in the Bible. (not between lines but a concrete one).
As it is the line of thought that she remained a virgin was decided on by "men". I align myself more with the Bible because thats the inspired word of God.

Personally, though, whether Mary remained a virgin or not after Jesus' birth doesn't change my opinion of Mary. She was certainly a special person and played a huge part in the birth of Christianity (no pun intended). Without her faith and bravery to trust God in a time where her predicament could have lead to her being stoned to death, where would we be today. I guess that God obviously knew what he was doing by chosing her in the first place, knowing that she would be up to the task.
Bless Ya
Col <><

 

[thereselittleflower]

I am sorry guys, I am not debating, but expressing my very strong feelings about what is being said here . . this thread is getting offensive with the cavalier attitude being expressed towards the only woman to bear God in her womb . . .this is a far cry from all generations will call her blessed . . . As a protestant, I would have never considered making some of the comments that have been made here . . . Instead of treating her as the most blessed among women, you treat her as though she is the most common and base . .

Would you talk about your own mother's sex life like this here on the forums in such an off handed and degrading manner? Yet you think nothing of doing so regarding Mary, the mother of your savior, blessed among women?


<shaking my head

 

[seebs]

I have no idea. It seems quite possible that she was, and quite possible that she wasn't. I don't see much of a basis for answering the question either way.

 

[sola fide]

What about the text in John chapter 2, and I'm not trying to imply anything, just putting it out there.
v.12- "After this He went down to Capernaum, with His mother and His brothers and His disciples, and they stayed there for a few days."

"brothers"- Greek- "adelphoi" -refers to siblings in a family.
Depending on the context it can be translated brothers or brothers and sisters.

John 7:5- "For not even His brothers believed in Him."
Wouldn't that eliminate the possibility of "brothers" being used in a spiritual manner, since we know that they did not believe in Him?

v.10- "But after His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He also went up, not publicly but in private."

Matthew 13:55-56- "Is not His mother called Mary? And are not His brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And are not all His sisters with us?.."

Galatians 1:19- "But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord's brother."

Just throwing some Scripture out there.
Grace and peace.

 

[BAChristian]

She was not holy...

Well I disagree.

Luke 1:27-30 (KJV)
To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

I feel that God chose Mary because she was pure of heart. Who else could bare our Lord, but a holy woman?

Do you think just any old lady was good enough? I don't think so. Elisabeth was considered holy, and she had John the Baptist who leaped in her womb when Mary came walking up to greet Elisabeth. Was the baby leaping in Elisabeth's womb because of Mary? Who knows...maybe the baby was leaping in her womb because the baby knew that Mary was carrying our Lord.

But once again -- how can a non-holy woman bare our Lord?

Luke 1:41-47 (KJV)
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord. And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

She is no gateway, as another is not needed.

Well my friend, Catholics would totally agree with you.

 

[en|gma]

The reason why RCs must maintain that Mary remained a virgin is becos they regard her as so holy and pure -- born without sin and never ever sinned actually -- that it would be unthinkable to say that she had sexual relations with an earthly man, albeit her husband.

The Mary of the Bible has been so exalted and put a on pedestal by the RCs that you cannot say anything negative about her. They give her all sorts of titles like Mother of God, Queen of Heaven, Ark of the New Covenant, its no wonder they have to believe that she was born without sin and never sinned, and that she remained a virgin.

Good point...but not being a virgin doesn't make one sinful either for God designed sex for His glory as well. And remaining a virgin doesnt make one holy and pure as well

As have been mentioned, Mary didn't remain a virgin.

 

[Matrona]

She was not holy, nor is it untrue that if she didn't have sex with her husband, she's a bad wife. Not only that, but there were times she was considered unclean. She is no gateway, as another is not needed.

As I am Orthodox, I am not allowed to debate here. Post this in IDD, and I'll be happy to give a substantive rejoinder to every claim you have made.

"My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, henceforth: ALL GENERATIONS SHALL CALL ME BLESSED."

--The Mother of God, speaking in Luke 1:46-48, emphasis mine

 

[BAChristian]

As have been mentioned, Mary didn't remain a virgin.

Can you please explain to me why you believe that Mary didn't remain a virgin?

 

[seebs]

As have been mentioned, Mary didn't remain a virgin.

Your Bible must be a lot more salacious in its details than mine. I can find nothing saying she ever had sex.