Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
In the 1 Corinthians 12 verse you are citing, Paul is emphasizing the preaching and teaching of the Gospel first which leads to loving acts of service. They are united with the body and serving those who serve with the Gospel message.
In Ephesians 4 he is speaking about the office of the ministry and the men who serve in these offices are gifts to the church. There is one office but a diversity of callings within the office. All of these people are equipping the saints for the work of the Church. So that they may go and tell others about what Jesus has done as well as in service to the Church.
couldn't agree with more, about the non denom, but I don't agree with the scripture fishing, It says what it says, although your right about penticostals and tonguesThis is a perfect example of the Scripture Fishing that has caused so much mischef in the Protestant Denominations. In fact, this type of using Scripture out of context is how groups like the Jehovah's Whitnesses became an extra-Christian sect.
For instance, the quotation on I Cor. 12:28, Paul is likening the Church to the various parts of a human body. The Pentecostals and Charasmatics maintain that if one doesn't speak in tongues they likely aren't saved. Yet Paul contradicts this in I Cor. 12:28 if it is used in context.
The same applys to the Ephesians 4:11 & 12 reference. Paul is once again likening the Church to a body. This condemns the Non-Denominational churches as in Ephesians 4:14 Paul says, "...that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to decieve..."
I can't count the non-denom churches who have been fleeced by a wolf in sheep's clothing dressed up as a pastor! Even Calvary Chapel, that bastion of Non-Denominational Churches, had this happen to them. Chuck Smith started out as the associate Pastor and had to take over when the senior Pastor skipped town with the till! I was involved with them when this happened, so I can say this first hand! Thus, I'll stick with a Church that's well grounded and has an organization that oversees and protects the sheep from the wolves.
The point I'm overlabouring to here is that the Non Denoms have thrown the baby out with the bath water, as it were, and are themselves behaving like spoiled children. They want to do things their way. They want to sing their songs. They want to worship their way. Everything has to be new and in the style of music they like. The message is about what they can do themselves. Even baptism, that act of obediance and cleansing, is about them accepting (their will again) Christ, not the Lord's unmerited sacrifice in their place. It's me, me, me, me, me, I, I, I, I! The focus again is on self and selfrighteousness not the vicarious gift of grace and salvation through the blood of Christ!
I thank our guest for providing such an excellent example of the error of the Protestants! It couldn't have been presented better.
As to the O.P. it has been answered better than I can do. The question displays prejudice to and ignorance of the history and facts surrounding the rather reluctant formation of the Lutheran Denomination. I would suggest our host to study the subject and he just might find the denomination he's looking for.
not sure why you find a question and a few scripture references so threatning I don't think Luther would have, He was all about what the bible says, in contradiction with what the RCC was doing.Are the mods not talking to you at all? I'm getting rather confused as to how you don't understand how the congregational forums work.
thats great! thats all I was askingJust for giggles (and I'll probably regret it), I looked up the verses you quoted to see what you were going on about.
1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.
Ephesians 4:11-12
11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Honestly, I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Confessional Lutheran churches have all these positions, duties and activities. The vast majority are all contained within the Office of the Ministry.
Now, if you're gonna say that these all have to be separate people in separate offices with separate titles and separate parking spaces, then we will have to disagree. Hopefully you know that all these are duties (among others) of the Office of the Ministry, or duties that take place under the authority of that office, and not all separated out into different offices.
not sure why you find a question and a few scripture references so threatning I don't think Luther would have, He was all about what the bible says, in contradiction with what the RCC was doing.
not sure why you find a question and a few scripture references so threatning I don't think Luther would have, He was all about what the bible says, in contradiction with what the RCC was doing.
Hey, if the goats had ruined your garden you'd be cranky too!
Hey, if the goats had ruined your garden you'd be cranky too!
Well said Stude!This is a perfect example of the Scripture Fishing that has caused so much mischef in the Protestant Denominations. In fact, this type of using Scripture out of context is how groups like the Jehovah's Whitnesses became an extra-Christian sect.
For instance, the quotation on I Cor. 12:28, Paul is likening the Church to the various parts of a human body. The Pentecostals and Charasmatics maintain that if one doesn't speak in tongues they likely aren't saved. Yet Paul contradicts this in I Cor. 12:28 if it is used in context.
The same applys to the Ephesians 4:11 & 12 reference. Paul is once again likening the Church to a body. This condemns the Non-Denominational churches as in Ephesians 4:14 Paul says, "...that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to decieve..."
I can't count the non-denom churches who have been fleeced by a wolf in sheep's clothing dressed up as a pastor! Even Calvary Chapel, that bastion of Non-Denominational Churches, had this happen to them. Chuck Smith started out as the associate Pastor and had to take over when the senior Pastor skipped town with the till! I was involved with them when this happened, so I can say this first hand! Thus, I'll stick with a Church that's well grounded and has an organization that oversees and protects the sheep from the wolves.
The point I'm overlabouring to here is that the Non Denoms have thrown the baby out with the bath water, as it were, and are themselves behaving like spoiled children. They want to do things their way. They want to sing their songs. They want to worship their way. Everything has to be new and in the style of music they like. The message is about what they can do themselves. Even baptism, that act of obediance and cleansing, is about them accepting (their will again) Christ, not the Lord's unmerited sacrifice in their place. It's me, me, me, me, me, I, I, I, I! The focus again is on self and selfrighteousness not the vicarious gift of grace and salvation through the blood of Christ!
I thank our guest for providing such an excellent example of the error of the Protestants! It couldn't have been presented better.
As to the O.P. it has been answered better than I can do. The question displays prejudice to and ignorance of the history and facts surrounding the rather reluctant formation of the Lutheran Denomination. I would suggest our host to study the subject and he just might find the denomination he's looking for.
This is a perfect example of the Scripture Fishing that has caused so much mischef in the Protestant Denominations. In fact, this type of using Scripture out of context is how groups like the Jehovah's Whitnesses became an extra-Christian sect.
For instance, the quotation on I Cor. 12:28, Paul is likening the Church to the various parts of a human body. The Pentecostals and Charasmatics maintain that if one doesn't speak in tongues they likely aren't saved. Yet Paul contradicts this in I Cor. 12:28 if it is used in context.
The same applys to the Ephesians 4:11 & 12 reference. Paul is once again likening the Church to a body. This condemns the Non-Denominational churches as in Ephesians 4:14 Paul says, "...that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to decieve..."
I can't count the non-denom churches who have been fleeced by a wolf in sheep's clothing dressed up as a pastor! Even Calvary Chapel, that bastion of Non-Denominational Churches, had this happen to them. Chuck Smith started out as the associate Pastor and had to take over when the senior Pastor skipped town with the till! I was involved with them when this happened, so I can say this first hand! Thus, I'll stick with a Church that's well grounded and has an organization that oversees and protects the sheep from the wolves.
The point I'm overlabouring to here is that the Non Denoms have thrown the baby out with the bath water, as it were, and are themselves behaving like spoiled children. They want to do things their way. They want to sing their songs. They want to worship their way. Everything has to be new and in the style of music they like. The message is about what they can do themselves. Even baptism, that act of obediance and cleansing, is about them accepting (their will again) Christ, not the Lord's unmerited sacrifice in their place. It's me, me, me, me, me, I, I, I, I! The focus again is on self and selfrighteousness not the vicarious gift of grace and salvation through the blood of Christ!
I thank our guest for providing such an excellent example of the error of the Protestants! It couldn't have been presented better.
As to the O.P. it has been answered better than I can do. The question displays prejudice to and ignorance of the history and facts surrounding the rather reluctant formation of the Lutheran Denomination. I would suggest our host to study the subject and he just might find the denomination he's looking for.
Hey, if the goats had ruined your garden you'd be cranky too!
The Church known as the Lutheran Church is the one true Church founded by Christ Himself . . .
RCs like to claim this for their church, but this is the first time that I have ever heard a Lutheran claim this. Can you plese elaborate?
Thanks
The Church known as the Lutheran Church is the one true Church founded by Christ Himself, based upon the teachings of the Apostles handed down over the centuries.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?