Zoomer said:
I do not want to sound snippy but this quote bothers me. It's the pot calling the kettle black.
How so?
Being Catholic are you overlooking the attrocities done in the name of God by Catholics?
Not at all . . but we were not discussing the Catholic Church. You have jumped to the wrong conclusion my friend.
You have assumed that I am advocating that one group repent of what their founding fathers did and that there is no need to repent of what some people did over a millenia AFTER the founding fathers of Catholicism.
So no, it is not a case of the pot calling the kettle black . . this "pot" is very remorseful over those things done in the name of Christ by the Catholic Church that were atrocities. . . and the Catholic Church has done so.
The Crusades and Spanish Inquistion come to mind.
And these two issues are some of the most misunderstood, misrepresented in all of Church history.
Not to mention the corruptions of Popes and priests in history.
And yes, while true, this is a very over rated issue in the greater scheme of things. . . though also one Catholics have been remorseful of.
But there is one important factor here . . . the founding fathers of Christianity, the same who are the founding fathers of the Catholic Church, did not do the things the founding fathers of Protestantism did 1500 yeasr later . . . The founding fathers of the Catholic Church were not responsible for the slaughter of 100,000 people almost overnight, etc . . I think individuals going "wrong" in their perosnal lives hundreds of years, even a millenia, later is not the same as those who are the
founders of a faith movement going wrong, having the blood of thousands upon thousands on their hands becasue of thier decrees . . I think it is appropriate and important to hold the founder of a religious movement to a higher level of accountabililty than individuals who follow much, much later . .
The beginnings of a movement are crucial. The beginning of protestantism has many, many problems, some so serious, that they call into question the legitimacy of the movement itself.
The reformation was founded in much bloodshed . . and that itself is a huge problem - but also the reformers', specifically Luther's, attitude towards such actions was huge problem as well.
There is also the fact that the Catholic church signed a treaty with Hitler, saying they would not rise against him as long as he granted them autonomy.
I think that this period of Church history is so misunderstood due to popular anti-Catholic renditions of it (especially a fictional play that became to be believed as true), that there is a lot of false information floating around . . .
The way this is presented here, and what it suggests, is false . . .
By the way, treaties are signed between secular powers who have armies and can attack each other . . . the Catholic Church does not sign treaties . . it is not a secular power .
I do not agree with everything Luther said but I do agree with his beliefs regarding faith, salvation, and grace. I believe that he understood Christianity at a level that the Catholic church at the time could not understand.
Obviously, or you would be Catholic.
I admire him for going against the corruption and trying to reinstate a truer doctrine and a closer relationship with Jesus.
Well, I used to admire him too . . until I found out some things that are generally never told to the rank and file Protestant Christian.
It was in finding out the truth about the reformers, primarily Luther, that caused me to look more deeply into what I had accepted as true for 30 years, which led me to the conclusion that not only had the reformers thrown out the baby with the bath water,
but most of it was baby.
Because of what I found, I continued to investigate all this in more depth from the beginning of Christianity on forward - what did the first Christians really believe, teach, practice, and live; and what I learned led to my conversion to Catholicism this last year.
I would encorage you to learn more about all this.
Peace to all!
