Marital Rape

[michellemariebru]

I just saw a thread post on the forum, and it reminded me of this subject that was in the news a couple months back. In the summer, the story surfaced of Mandy Boardman, who was raped by her husband of seven years, countless times, while she was asleep. If your not familiar with the story, here is an article from Time Magazine.
http://time.com/3976180/marital-rape/
After this story surfaced, it triggered a lot of debate. Many Christians were saying that there is no such thing as marital rape.
Then in October, ( I believe his name is Larry Solomon) wrote a post on his website and it got some attention. Some people thought it was extreme and insane,other people agreed with it 100 %
Here is the article he wrote http://biblicalgenderroles.com/2015...joy-sex-that-is-grudgingly-given-by-his-wife/
^ when you get to the website, scroll down to see the article

-Basically, he says if your wife is having sex with you grudgingly, look at her body and not her face during sex.

From his perspective, he is saying there is no such thing as marital rape, and that the bible states it's a sin to deprive your spouse.


Is it possible to rape your spouse?
Or is rape non-existant in marriage,
1 Corinthians 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.


I am just curious as to what everyone's thoughts are on this subject.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Hi; my comment will be brief; what I wanted to say was, if you are engaged to a guy, make sure you and he share similar expectations.

 

[Armoured]

My basic position is "if you truly care for someone, who should you ever want to have sex with that person without their full and enthusiastic consent?"

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Many horrible things can happen in a marriage including rape. I don't see why people aren't looking into avoiding it altogether...

 

[DogmaHunter]

Kind of a strange question.

Forcing someone - anyone - to have sex against their will, is rape in my book.

 

[Dave-W]

Forcing someone - anyone - to have sex against their will, is rape in my book.

Rape by definition involves penetration. So a woman (unless she is using some kind of prosthesis) is incapable of rape. But women can and do force men to have sex with them.

Find another term. The state of Michigan uses "Criminal Sexual Conduct."

 

[michellemariebru]

Hi; my comment will be brief; what I wanted to say was, if you are engaged to a guy, make sure you and he share similar expectations.

Amen!!!!

 

[michellemariebru]

Kind of a strange question.

Forcing someone - anyone - to have sex against their will, is rape in my book.

It is a strange question and I agree! I was just curious of your thoughts! Thanks for your response

 

[michellemariebru]

Rape by definition involves penetration. So a woman (unless she is using some kind of prosthesis) is incapable of rape. But women can and do force men to have sex with them.

Find another term. The state of Michigan uses "Criminal Sexual Conduct."

!! Yes you are right

 

[michellemariebru]

My basic position is "if you truly care for someone, who should you ever want to have sex with that person without their full and enthusiastic consent?"

I agree ! That is the same question I ask. I mean, YES - biblically, when married two people belong to each other- but it doesn't mean that when you get married you loose all respect for the other person. You should respect them and love them even MORE.

 

[michellemariebru]

Many horrible things can happen in a marriage including rape. I don't see why people aren't looking into avoiding it altogether...

Do you mean avoid marriage ? ( I'm just trying to make sure I'm getting your response correct )

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Do you mean avoid marriage ? ( I'm just trying to make sure I'm getting your response correct )

I think that marriage is a sexist institution. I don't understand why people want it, especially women...

 

[VirOptimus]

Of course it is possible.

 

[Dave-W]

Forcing someone - anyone - to have sex against their will, is rape in my book.

OK - leaving the REAL and LEGAL definitions of rape behind; let me paint a scenario for you.

A young lady sees her man/fiancee asleep in a private place and he is in loose fitting shorts. So she (being very curious and perhaps somewhat lustful) reaches in and starts exploring and fondling. He "finishes" without waking up. (trying to be delicate here) So to him he had just another wet dream.

Was he "raped?" Or did she just give him a very enjoyable experience? Was it both?

Or what if he woke up (but feigned sleep) part way thru?

 

[AlexDTX]

I just saw a thread post on the forum, and it reminded me of this subject that was in the news a couple months back. In the summer, the story surfaced of Mandy Boardman, who was raped by her husband of seven years, countless times, while she was asleep. If your not familiar with the story, here is an article from Time Magazine.
http://time.com/3976180/marital-rape/
After this story surfaced, it triggered a lot of debate. Many Christians were saying that there is no such thing as marital rape.
Then in October, ( I believe his name is Larry Solomon) wrote a post on his website and it got some attention. Some people thought it was extreme and insane,other people agreed with it 100 %
Here is the article he wrote http://biblicalgenderroles.com/2015...joy-sex-that-is-grudgingly-given-by-his-wife/
^ when you get to the website, scroll down to see the article

-Basically, he says if your wife is having sex with you grudgingly, look at her body and not her face during sex.

From his perspective, he is saying there is no such thing as marital rape, and that the bible states it's a sin to deprive your spouse.


Is it possible to rape your spouse?
Or is rape non-existant in marriage,
1 Corinthians 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.


I am just curious as to what everyone's thoughts are on this subject.

I think the case goes further than rape. Frankly, I think most men touch with their wives. What I mean is that they are not concerned with the pleasure of their wives, but their own pleasure at their wives' expense. I think it is very difficult for men to have a selfless intimacy with their spouse that lines up with God's intention of loving expression through intercourse.

I also think that limiting the definition of rape as penetration is insufficient. Rape is anything we do to another person against their will. When you consider the last 5 commandments they all are crimes against another person's will: theft, adultery, dishonouring parents, coveting another person's property and taking another person's life; all violate another person's will. God never violates another person's will, even to the point of allowing them to choose the second death in the lake of fire. That does not mean that God is passive. On the contrary, He is active in everyone's life, wooing them by the Spirit.

In the love song of Solomon, there is an interesting verse that demonstrates this behaviour.

2 I sleep, but my heart wakes: it is the voice of my beloved that knocks, saying, Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my undefiled: for my head is filled with dew, and my locks with the drops of the night. 3 I have put off my coat; how shall I put it on? I have washed my feet; how shall I defile them? 4My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him.5 I rose up to open to my beloved; and my hands dropped with myrrh, and my fingers with sweet smelling myrrh, on the handles of the lock. 6 I opened to my beloved; but my beloved had withdrawn himself, and was gone: my soul failed when he spoke: I sought him, but I could not find him; I called him, but he gave me no answer.
​

The beloved is a type of Christ who wants the love of his "sister", but she initially refuses him with excuses of having already washed and gone to bed, so instead of forcing himself in he withdraws himself. She changes her mind, but by then it is too late since he had already left.

Paul in his advice to the Corinthians is not making a case that there is no rape in marriage. He is making the case that we mutually submit to one another because we love one another. Men have much more need of release of sexual tension than women, so he is merely advising the wives to yield to their husbands as aid against potential temptation in other arenas, whether it be pornography or adultery.

If she refuses to submit and he forces herself onto her, he is raping her.

The bottom line is understanding the genuine agape love of God in marriage. We do not make our spouses do anything, but we do share our desires and struggles with one another so we can, as Solomon said in Ecclesiastes;

10For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falls; for he has not another to help him up​

because godly love is more concerned about the welfare of the other than of one's self.

 

[michellemariebru]

I think that marriage is a sexist institution. I don't understand why people want it, especially women...

I notice now a days many people are avoid marriage all together. My eldest brother has been married for 10 years, but the other one wants nothing to do with it. He's afraid of divorce.

 

[michellemariebru]

I think the case goes further than rape. Frankly, I think most men touch with their wives. What I mean is that they are not concerned with the pleasure of their wives, but their own pleasure at their wives' expense. I think it is very difficult for men to have a selfless intimacy with their spouse that lines up with God's intention of loving expression through intercourse.

I also think that limiting the definition of rape as penetration is insufficient. Rape is anything we do to another person against their will. When you consider the last 5 commandments they all are crimes against another person's will: theft, adultery, dishonouring parents, coveting another person's property and taking another person's life; all violate another person's will. God never violates another person's will, even to the point of allowing them to choose the second death in the lake of fire. That does not mean that God is passive. On the contrary, He is active in everyone's life, wooing them by the Spirit.

In the love song of Solomon, there is an interesting verse that demonstrates this behaviour.

2 I sleep, but my heart wakes: it is the voice of my beloved that knocks, saying, Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my undefiled: for my head is filled with dew, and my locks with the drops of the night. 3 I have put off my coat; how shall I put it on? I have washed my feet; how shall I defile them? 4My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him.5 I rose up to open to my beloved; and my hands dropped with myrrh, and my fingers with sweet smelling myrrh, on the handles of the lock. 6 I opened to my beloved; but my beloved had withdrawn himself, and was gone: my soul failed when he spoke: I sought him, but I could not find him; I called him, but he gave me no answer.
​

The beloved is a type of Christ who wants the love of his "sister", but she initially refuses him with excuses of having already washed and gone to bed, so instead of forcing himself in he withdraws himself. She changes her mind, but by then it is too late since he had already left.

Paul in his advice to the Corinthians is not making a case that there is no rape in marriage. He is making the case that we mutually submit to one another because we love one another. Men have much more need of release of sexual tension than women, so he is merely advising the wives to yield to their husbands as aid against potential temptation in other arenas, whether it be pornography or adultery.

If she refuses to submit and he forces herself onto her, he is raping her.

The bottom line is understanding the genuine agape love of God in marriage. We do not make our spouses do anything, but we do share our desires and struggles with one another so we can, as Solomon said in Ecclesiastes;

10For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falls; for he has not another to help him up​

because godly love is more concerned about the welfare of the other than of one's self.

You are soooooooooooooooooo right ! Great points!

 

[Hetta]

Sex without consent is always rape. I don't want to read the link because I know it will make me angry, and I would rather enjoy my Friday, but saying "look at her body, not her face" - does that mean if your spouse is crying, you carry on? That is nauseating. Such a man would not be my husband for long. (And this reminds me again how fortunate I am.)

 

[Hetta]

OK - leaving the REAL and LEGAL definitions of rape behind; let me paint a scenario for you.

A young lady sees her man/fiancee asleep in a private place and he is in loose fitting shorts. So she (being very curious and perhaps somewhat lustful) reaches in and starts exploring and fondling. He "finishes" without waking up. (trying to be delicate here) So to him he had just another wet dream.

Was he "raped?" Or did she just give him a very enjoyable experience? Was it both?

Or what if he woke up (but feigned sleep) part way thru?

Is this something they do regularly "to" each other, or something out of the blue? Because if they were in the habit of this, and both thought it was okay, that's different. I do find it hard to believe that any man (or woman) would sleep through something like this. They would have to be drugged, drunk or something. If he was drunk and she did that - then yes, I believe that is rape because it was done without his consent. It's no different to a man touching a GF intimately where she is unconscious.

 

[Paulos23]

Yes there can be rape in marriage, just like there can be assault and abuse in marriage. Marriage does not excuse illegal or immoral behavior. One does not give up rights when they become married, nor do they become property.

Marriage should be a partnership, not a one sided power trip.