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Since Rhamiel already answered my question, no.A google search and 10 minutes can yield this information.... Do you have a specific question on apparitions?
.....Satan and his minions can do the same with these "Marian apparitions"?
I would generally place them in the same class as weeping crucifixes, bleeding hosts, visions of heaven/hell, and stories of so-and-so in remote place having raised the dead.
That is, I sincerely doubt their authenticity.
The term "hoax" implies an intentional deception or ruse, and so I won't assume that's the case (though it's a valid possibility). I'm usually simply okay with the idea that the human imagination is quite powerful, and people imagine things all the time. Sort of like the face of Jesus on water stains.
I don't put stock into modern claims of visions, miracles, or supernatural phenomenon. Not because I reject such things as possible a priori, but because I would rather be skeptical than taken in.
If God wanted the Blessed Virgin or any one of the saints in heaven to appear before the Faithful He is more than capable of making it happen, it happened on the Mount of Transfiguration with the appearance of Moses and Elijah, God permitted it with the unusual event with Saul and the witch of Endor. But I don't think I should just assume that when someone says X happened I should just believe it.
-CryptoLutheran
This thought came to my mind....I know about certain Marian apparitions that a lot of Catholics deem to be true but satan himself disguises himself as a angel of light according to the the word of God. Satan and his demons can masquerade as departed loved ones to trick us and wouldn't it be possible Satan and his minions can do the same with these "Marian apparitions"?
Does it have to be strictly either/or? Either all Marian apparitions are real or all are satanic "hoaxes?" What about the possibility of mass hysteria that is genuinely believed but has only psychological, and no spiritual, grounding? What if some are genuine, others are mass hysteria, and others are demonic?
To answer your particular concern, I would be hesitant to call any genuine Marian apparitions demonic. Would Christ allow his sacred mother to be used in such a way? And as for Satan's appearance as an angel of light, I don't think the text in question is actually referring to visions of angelic beings, but rather to the possibility that even the most extraordinarily holy persons (angelic or human) are susceptible to fall. And even if Satan wanted to use Marian for devious purposes, the Catholic Church generally investigates claims of such apparitions (and other miracles); the content of such revelations are checked against existing Catholic practice and cannot alter previous Catholic doctrine.
Could Satan use psychological means like mass hysteria to draw people away from focus on Christ, and even a proper theology of Mary (which always points to Christ), to an ecstatic Mariology focused on visions that point to Mary without pointing to Christ? Sure, I suppose it's possible. But in that case, the problem would not be with Marian devotion as such, but with the disposition of the individual- seeing Mary as an end-in-herself, not as pointing to Christ; a genuinely, for-real Marian apparition could likewise be corrupted if the person was devoted to Mary above Christ.
Originally Posted by JohnChapter14
I don't know why my last topic violated the terms and agreements, as I posted videos and links for people to view and discuss. Anyway here are two links for people to view. Enjoy.
About Mary
Our Lady of Emmitsburg Cult Watch - Apparitions Divine or Demonic?
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I would generally place them in the same class as weeping crucifixes, bleeding hosts, visions of heaven/hell, and stories of so-and-so in remote place having raised the dead.
That is, I sincerely doubt their authenticity.
The term "hoax" implies an intentional deception or ruse, and so I won't assume that's the case (though it's a valid possibility). I'm usually simply okay with the idea that the human imagination is quite powerful, and people imagine things all the time. Sort of like the face of Jesus on water stains.
I don't put stock into modern claims of visions, miracles, or supernatural phenomenon. Not because I reject such things as possible a priori, but because I would rather be skeptical than taken in.
If God wanted the Blessed Virgin or any one of the saints in heaven to appear before the Faithful He is more than capable of making it happen, it happened on the Mount of Transfiguration with the appearance of Moses and Elijah, God permitted it with the unusual event with Saul and the witch of Endor. But I don't think I should just assume that when someone says X happened I should just believe it.
-CryptoLutheran
I think a crucial point is being missed in this conversation...the Catholic Church does not just "willy-nilly" approve a Marian apparation. There are processes and criteria needed for it to be approved...it isnt as if every person who sees the Blessed Virgin in a piece of toast gets approval...
I don't think anyone is implying that either. however, you can forgive some of us for having a bit of cynicism when it comes to visitations.
This thought came to my mind....I know about certain Marian apparitions that a lot of Catholics deem to be true but satan himself disguises himself as a angel of light according to the the word of God. Satan and his demons can masquerade as departed loved ones to trick us and wouldn't it be possible Satan and his minions can do the same with these "Marian apparitions"?
They are all a hoax whether the imagination of the one reporting them or the magician's trick pulled off by Satan.
We know this because of Isaiah 8:19-20
in Christ,
Bob
I would generally place them in the same class as weeping crucifixes, bleeding hosts, visions of heaven/hell, and stories of so-and-so in remote place having raised the dead.
That is, I sincerely doubt their authenticity.
The term "hoax" implies an intentional deception or ruse, and so I won't assume that's the case (though it's a valid possibility). I'm usually simply okay with the idea that the human imagination is quite powerful, and people imagine things all the time. Sort of like the face of Jesus on water stains.
I don't put stock into modern claims of visions, miracles, or supernatural phenomenon. Not because I reject such things as possible a priori, but because I would rather be skeptical than taken in.
If God wanted the Blessed Virgin or any one of the saints in heaven to appear before the Faithful He is more than capable of making it happen, it happened on the Mount of Transfiguration with the appearance of Moses and Elijah, God permitted it with the unusual event with Saul and the witch of Endor. But I don't think I should just assume that when someone says X happened I should just believe it.
-CryptoLutheran
They are all a hoax whether the imagination of the one reporting them or the magician's trick pulled off by Satan.
We know this because of Isaiah 8:19-20
does this disprove the Gospel account of Moses and Elijah appearing on the mount along with Jesus?
well Elijah would not have been dead, because he was taken up into heaven while still alive....
but Moses would have been long dead
Moses is referenced in the book of Jude where we find a quote from the book "The Assumption of Moses" regarding the dispute between Michael and the devil over the right to resurrect the body of Moses. That dispute ends in the assumption of Moses bodily into heaven.
As for the RCC and spirits, witches, mediums and "conjure up for me whomever I shall name - by thy familiar spirit" - well the Bible condemns that sort of thing saying that those who did it in the OT in the land of Israel's theocracy - were doomed.
But very often when you get to a subject like this one RC member or another will appeal to the seance of 1Sam 28 held by a witch to try and make their case in favor of their doctrine.
I would argue that the witch was sadly mistaken.
in Christ,
Bob
yes, in the OT Israel (not sure if you can call it a theocracy because the office of King was separate from the office of Priest) people who worked witchcraft were doomed
do you know where else they were doomed?
in the holy kingdoms of Christendom through the Middle Ages
I mean, we burned a LOT of witches at the stake, you can not really doubt the devotion of the Catholic Church in fighting against witchcraft.
those Christian Kings also protected the Lords Day from those who would desecrate it with menial labor and course commerce
but that is a topic for another day
Catholic Digest 12/1994 pg 129
The Rosary is, unsurprisingly, Not mentioned in the Bible. Legend and history place its beginning in the 13th century long After the Bible was completed. As a Pagan practice, praying on counting beads goes back centuries before Christ
Buddhists use prayer wheels and prayer beads for the same purpose Counting prayer beads is common practice in religious cultures.
Cath Digest 9/1993 pg 129
Question:
My husband has been transferred to Japan and we have been here in Hiroshima for about two months. On a site seeing tour the Japanese guide brought me to a Buddhist shrine. There were statues of Buddha everywhere. The guide told me they represented different aspects of life and that the people offer food to the Buddhas and ask for Favors. It made me think of Our Catholic praying to the saints and wonder whether they have anything like the Ten Commandments to guide them.
There were fountains at the gate where pious visitors washed their hands before entering the shrine grounds. Could this be the same as our holy water?
Ans:
Very probably the physical washing signifies some kind of spiritual cleansing, AS it does with Us! Some Muslims say prayers on rosarylike beads Just as We do, so there is no copyright enforced on prayerful customs among the great world religions. The Pagan Romans prayed, each family to its Own household gods, JUST as we do to our patron saints. In Old Testament times the gentile had local gods for their town or country, and our Christian Saints eventually supplanted Them!
The Hebrews, of Course, had the mission of Wiping Out such heathen worship with the worship of the one true God, and while they have always had great respect for spiritual heroes, they Never set up any of their own race as substitutes for the local pagan gods!!
They had no need to make distinctions between praying TO the saints for their intercession with god and total adoration of God as the source of everything, as we must!
I would generally place them in the same class as weeping crucifixes, bleeding hosts, visions of heaven/hell, and stories of so-and-so in remote place having raised the dead.
That is, I sincerely doubt their authenticity.
The term "hoax" implies an intentional deception or ruse, and so I won't assume that's the case (though it's a valid possibility). I'm usually simply okay with the idea that the human imagination is quite powerful, and people imagine things all the time. Sort of like the face of Jesus on water stains.
I don't put stock into modern claims of visions, miracles, or supernatural phenomenon. Not because I reject such things as possible a priori, but because I would rather be skeptical than taken in.
If God wanted the Blessed Virgin or any one of the saints in heaven to appear before the Faithful He is more than capable of making it happen, it happened on the Mount of Transfiguration with the appearance of Moses and Elijah, God permitted it with the unusual event with Saul and the witch of Endor. But I don't think I should just assume that when someone says X happened I should just believe it.
-CryptoLutheran
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