Marian apparitions...are they for real or a hoax?

barryatlake said:

bb, you wrote: " rather than anything Albion or I have posted? Interesting."


__________________
Those are your words. my words are, "It's a heck of a lot more dependable than Albion or your two-cents." never said that the Gospel of Thomas was '' Canonical "
__________________

Click to expand...

That was the end of my sentence. The full sentence reads as follows:

Thank you. So, you believe this - "114. Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life." Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven." rather than anything Albion or I have posted? Interesting.

Simply ridiculous, have fun, see ya.

bbbbbbb said:

That was the end of my sentence. The full sentence reads as follows:

Thank you. So, you believe this - "114. Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life." Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven." rather than anything Albion or I have posted? Interesting.

Click to expand...

Hmm. You slammed the door on the opposition with that one.

Albion said:

Hmm. You slammed the door on the opposition with that one.

Click to expand...

It definitely does seem that way. All things considered, I believe far more of what Barry posts than I do of the nonsense found in the Gospel of Thomas.

Albion said:

Every last thing? Probably not. But I have come to expect that when I see "tadoflamb" on the lists of posts, I have a very good idea of what it's likely to be about. How about breaking that particular habit? I think you have a lot you could say...if only it were something we all could join in with.

Click to expand...

You know, when I was in Lourdes I talked to a priest about this very thing and he sort of shrugged his shoulders and said as Catholics we have the fullness of the truth. It's going to go that way sometimes. I think I'll unashamedly continue to extol the joys of being Catholic even if it means I have to forfeit my faithful readership.

Albion said:

Now, that's not fair IMO. I have steadily indicated that Mary, as the mother of God, deserves honor and respect. It also is the case--whether you want to admit to it or not--that she is almost absent from any of the famous moments in Christ's life as recorded in Scripture. You would think that if she were this superbeing in the manner that Roman Catholics argue, that she would be held up by Jesus when he was speaking to the crowds, introduced, lauded, made a key "player" in the many events he was part of. But she wasn't.

That's curious, wouldn't even you have to agree? Especially if the legends of her being ever-virgin, dispenser of all graces, queen of heaven, immaculately conceived, assumed bodily into heaven--and the Lourdes and Fatima kind of things were true.

And I have also pointed out that it is possible, by legend and excessive devotions, to make saints into more than they were or are. No, it's not right to treat any saint in the manner of a demi-god (which term of comparison has been made here by lots of other posters in the past).

P.S. It's not "my archbishop." I believe you are referring to the Archbishop of Canterbury, right?.

Click to expand...

I think it's fair. While I am hard pressed to find a single instance where you have called the virgin Mary blessed (as the bible testifies that all generations would) I would only have to go a few pages back to find where you referred to her as not blessed, but a 'bit player'.

While you come to this conclusion of the Blessed Mother being a 'bit player' f r your personal reading of the bible, from my personal reading of the Sacred Scriptures, I know that the Blessed Virgin Mary was present at the conception of my Lord, and she was also present at the Cross of my Lord. What happened in between, in spite of the supposed silence of the sacred texts I'll go ahead and deduce that she remained quietly faithful, pointed consistently towards here Son, and as the scriptures attest, was 'full of grace'.

Which returns me back to the apparitions at Lourdes, and the presence of the Bishop of Canterbury at a Marian shrine where he reportedly preached to 20,000 people. I have to confess, I'm a little surprised at your rejection of the the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, is that not an Anglican belief? Moreover, how do Anglicans deal with one of their bishops making a pilgrimage to a Catholic shrine which unashamedly commemorates the Immaculate Conception and Mary Crowned Queen of Heaven? Strange an Anglican bishop would wander into territory where the Blessed Mother, a 'bit player' was elevated to 'super-being' or 'demi-god' status.

I'm just going to just hazard a guess that this is where your denomination of choice disagrees with you.

I can only the conclude that the non-Catholic response to Marian apparitions, remains inconsistent and confused.

tadoflamb said:

You know, when I was in Lourdes I talked to a priest about this very thing and he sort of shrugged his shoulders and said as Catholics we have the fullness of the truth. It's going to go that way sometimes. I think I'll unashamedly continue to extol the joys of being Catholic even if it means I have to forfeit my faithful readership.

Click to expand...

Of course, it wasn't "extolling the joys of being a Roman Catholic" that we were speaking about.

Rather, It's the joy that that seems to be taken from expressing disgust towards other Christians. What did the priest have to say about doing that?

Albion said:

Of course, it wasn't "extolling the joys of being a Roman Catholic" that we were speaking about.

Rather, It's the joy that that seems to be taken from expressing disgust towards other Christians. What did the priest have to say about doing that?

Click to expand...

First, you say I vilify everything non-Catholic and now you say I take joy at expressing disgust at other Christians? If you and your co-religious are going to come up with such outlandish statements as the Blessed Virgin Mother being a bit player, you're going to have to come up with a better defense than a knee jerk reaction like this.

Besides, the subject of this thread isn't me, but Marian apparitions and non-Catholic's inability to come to grips with them.

tadoflamb said:

First, you say I vilify everything non-Catholic and now you say I take joy at expressing disgust at other Christians? If you and your co-religious are going to come up with such outlandish statements as the Blessed Virgin Mother being a bit player

Click to expand...

But you cannot deny that the statement was true--even if you think you can make hay out of that colloquialism.

Actually, I rather like it that you confirm what's been said here by others, that some people have the notion that the more effusive, exaggerated, gushy but complicated the terminology that's used for any saint, the more the one using such language thinks he's proving himself to be devout.

What a concept. If the saints themselves have any way of knowing about this, they must be saddened by it.

Albion said:

But you cannot deny that the statement was true--even if you think you can make hay out of that colloquialism.

Actually, I rather like it that you confirm what's been said here by others, that some people have the notion that the more effusive, exaggerated, gushy but complicated the terminology that's used for any saint, the more the one using such language thinks he's proving himself to be devout.

What a concept. If the saints themselves have any way of knowing about this, they must be saddened by it.

Click to expand...

I would go so far as to say they would be appalled by it, or, in a common idiom, they would be turning in their graves.

Albion & bb, you wrote: "If the saints themselves have any way of knowing about this, they must be saddened by it.
.....they would be turning in their graves."

I totally disagree. As a Catholic I accept a God much different than your Protestant God. I will give you an example of what I mean. Because the Catholic God is a glorious God He will glorify the bodies of those who "earn "heaven, Our Father in Heaven will not worry that you will focus on the beauty of everything, including each other in your glorified bodies. That we marvel at the beauty around us only gives us greater honor and glory to Him. Same goes for His mother who He made as an everlasting Virgin , only our Lord God would have a Virgin mother so as to prove to His love for us, a heavenly mother for us all, nobody can claim the Blessed Virgin Mary as only theirs, God designed Mary as the Mother of all who reach Heaven.

bbbbbbb said:

I would go so far as to say they would be appalled by it, or, in a common idiom, they would be turning in their graves.

Click to expand...

Oh, oh. You said "turning in their graves."

barryatlake said:

Albion & bb, you wrote: "If the saints themselves have any way of knowing about this, they must be saddened by it.
.....they would be turning in their graves."

I totally disagree. As a Catholic I accept a God much different than your Protestant God. .

Click to expand...

Actually, it's the same God--the God of the Bible. Sorry to have to mention that and I hope it doesn't offend.

I absolutely disagree.Protestants place human weaknesses onto their concept of our Father in Heaven. As a Catholic I accept a God much different than your image of God. I will give you an example of what I mean. Because the Catholic God is a glorious God He will glorify the bodies of those who "earn "heaven, Our Father in Heaven will not worry that you will focus on the beauty of everything, including each other in your glorified bodies. That we marvel at the beauty around us only gives us greater honor and glory to Him. Same goes for His mother who He made as an everlasting Virgin , only our Lord God would have a Virgin mother so as to prove to His love for us, a heavenly mother for us all, nobody can claim the Blessed Virgin Mary as only theirs, God designed Mary as the Mother of all who reach Heaven.

Originally Posted by barryatlake

Albion & bb, you wrote: "If the saints themselves have any way of knowing about this, they must be saddened by it.
.....they would be turning in their graves."

I totally disagree. As a Catholic I accept a God much different than your Protestant God.
​

Click to expand...

Albion said:

Actually, it's the same God--the God of the Bible. Sorry to have to mention that and I hope it doesn't offend.

Click to expand...

barryatlake said:

I absolutely disagree.Protestants place human weaknesses onto their concept of our Father in Heaven. As a Catholic I accept a God much different than your image of God. I will give you an example of what I mean. Because the Catholic God is a glorious God He will glorify the bodies of those who "earn "heaven, Our Father in Heaven will not worry that you will focus on the beauty of everything, including each other in your glorified bodies. That we marvel at the beauty around us only gives us greater honor and glory to Him....................

Click to expand...

what in heaven's name does all of that have to do with Marian apparitions?
So according to Catholicism, that would make the Protestant God more like Islam's god.
That is almost laughable......I should make a separate thread on that.....

Romans 1:23
and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

2Coloss 4:4
whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe,
lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.



.

yogosans14 said:

No one can "earn heaven"

Click to expand...

We can certainly struggle hard for the kingdom of heaven.

prodromos said:

Matthew 11:12
From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force.​

We can certainly struggle hard for the kingdom of heaven.

Click to expand...

That would be God's kingdom on this earth. Obviously, it is absurd to imagine that anyone could storm the gates of Heaven and lay siege to it in order to conquer it.

prodromos said:

Matthew 11:12
From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force.​

We can certainly struggle hard for the kingdom of heaven.

Click to expand...

You two are obviously speaking of different things.