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Males to blame

seangoh

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Well i got this article in my email and i thought the main idea is true.
I just came up with the title.

==========================

In recent days, a major critique of the message has been offered by
Camerin Courtney and posted at ChristianityToday.com. In her article,
"Is Singleness a Sin?" Ms. Courtney decided to respectfully let me have
it. She suggested that I had offered "gross overgeneralizations" about
single people, and she argued that most Christian singles "aren't
delaying marriage due to selfish motives."

Ms. Courtney went on to say that most singles she knows "earnestly
desire to be married, are surprised and/or frustrated that they aren't
yet, and are prayerfully trying to figure out how to get from here to
there."
Most specifically, Ms. Courtney was offended by my suggestion that,
except for those given the gift of celibacy, marriage is the God-given
context for the achievement of maturity in adulthood. Many others have
responded to that argument as well.

In recent days, I have received a flood of e-mail messages and other
contacts, mostly driven by Ms. Courtney's article. Most have been very
clear about their outrage, but also very thoughtful in suggesting
exactly where they felt I had gone wrong. Interestingly, every single
response to Ms. Courtney's article I have yet received has been written
by a woman.

In reflecting on these messages and the points these very articulate and
thoughtful women have raised, I am led to wonder if parts of the total
message may have been edited or missing from the version they read or
heard. But even if all the arguments were present, I wonder if some of
them may have been missed or minimized.

Re-examine Biblical Teachings

In any event, the ensuing controversy affords all of us a good
opportunity to look again at the biblical teachings concerning marriage
and commit ourselves to accountability before God for the totality of
our lives. Some of my respondents clearly missed the point concerning
celibacy. But others still want to argue that intentional
singleness--apparently without respect to celibacy--can be an acceptable
lifestyle option for believers. I stand unmoved, even more convinced
that the argument I made at the New Attitude Conference is precisely
correct.

Singleness is not a sin, but deliberate singleness on the part of those
who know they have not been given the gift of celibacy is, at best, a
neglect of a Christian responsibility. The problem may be simple sloth,
personal immaturity, a fear of commitment, or an unbalanced priority
given to work and profession. On the part of men, it may also take the
shape of a refusal to grow up and take the lead in courtship. There are
countless Christian women who are prayerfully waiting for Christian men
to grow up and take the lead. What are these guys waiting for?

The delay of marriage has caused any number of ills in the larger
society, and in the church. Honesty compels us to admit that this is
indeed tied to levels of sexual promiscuity and frustration, even as it
means that many persons are now marrying well into their adult years,
missing the opportunity of growing together as a young couple, and
putting parenthood potentially at risk.

Almost all of the women who have written me in response to this article
have indicated their grief and frustration that they are not yet
married. Not one has indicated in her message that she has intended from
the beginning to be single and to remain single. To the contrary, each
writer has affirmed her own commitment to marriage and to be married,
and each has spoken of her personal frustration that her hopes have not
been yet fulfilled.

Addressed to Men

Given this commitment and hope as articulated by these thoughtful young
women, it should be clear that when I spoke of a pattern of sin in the
delay of marriage, I was certainly not attributing that sin to them. To
the contrary, as one who believes wholeheartedly in the biblical pattern
of complementarity and in the male responsibility to lead, I charge
young men with far greater responsibility for this failure.

The extension of a "boy culture" into the twenties and thirties, along
with a sense of uncertainty about the true nature of male leadership has
led many young men to focus on career, friends, sports, and any number
of other satisfactions when they should be preparing themselves for
marriage and taking responsibility to grow up, be the man, and show
God's glory as husband and father.

I am not calling for high school students to marry, and I am certainly
not suggesting that believers of any age should marry thoughtlessly,
carelessly, and without sound spiritual judgment. But I am most
emphatically arguing that this delay of marriage now presents the church
with a critical test: We will either recover a full and comprehensive
biblical vision of marriage in all of its glory, or we will soon find
believers so accommodated to the culture around us that all we seek in
our marriages is to do marginally better than what we see in the world.

Sensitivity Needed

Sensitivity demands that we understand the grief, frustration, and
concern of Christian young adults struggling with this issue. They are
the inheritors of a culture that has minimized marriage and has sent
mixed messages concerning sex, gender, marriage, and all the rest. The
full biblical vision of marriage was not, in the main, held before them
from their earliest years at home, and was not encouraged and enriched
as they grew through adolescence into adulthood. Many of
them--especially many young women--feel victimized by this pattern, and
they are frustrated by the reality.

Now is the time for the church to take this conversation to the next
level. This generation of Christian young adults has the opportunity to
seize the moment, reverse cultural trends, and show their elders the
glory of marriage as God intended it from the beginning.

I stand by my argument--renewed in this conviction even by the
controversy that has followed. At the same time, I'm going to be a good
bit more careful to make clear that young men must accept most of the
blame for this situation. I will also remind these young men that, armed
with a biblical mandate and fueled by Christian passion, they can also
be the vanguard for recovery.

So, thanks to Camerin Courtney for her article, and to all those who
have followed with responses. Let's keep this conversation going, and
encourage each other to pursue God's glory in every dimension of our
lives--and to settle for nothing less.

>> R. Albert Mohler, Jr. is president of The Southern Baptist
Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky. For more articles and
resources by Dr. Mohler, and for information on The Albert Mohler
Program, a daily national radio program broadcast on the Salem Radio
Network, go to www.albertmohler.com. For information on The Southern
Baptist Theological Seminary, go to www.sbts.edu. Send feedback to
mail@albertmohler.com.
 

Evangelical Pastor

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The article quoted is truly outrageous.It totally ignores:A.The Apostle Paul's instructions to Christian's not to get married.B.The end times we are now in which will result in unspeakable disasters stiking the world in the immediate future resulting in the total destruction of civilization that Jesus spoke of.C.Complete ignorance of divorce statistics;a higher percentage of Christians secure divorces than do non-Christians plunging them into grief and dispair.During their marriages,they become so dependant upon their mates,that many go on to re-marry,thus engaging in adultery according to Jesus' teachings.(Mark 10:11-12) Christians will have little time to think about their own selfish desires for marriage and children if they followed the biblical commandment,"TAKE UP YOUR CROSS DAILY AND FOLLOW CHRIST".
 
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klewlis

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Evangelical Pastor said:
The article quoted is truly outrageous.It totally ignores:A.The Apostle Paul's instructions to Christian's not to get married.B.The end times we are now in which will result in unspeakable disasters stiking the world in the immediate future resulting in the total destruction of civilization that Jesus spoke of.C.Complete ignorance of divorce statistics;a higher percentage of Christians secure divorces than do non-Christians plunging them into grief and dispair.During their marriages,they become so dependant upon their mates,that many go on to re-marry,thus engaging in adultery according to Jesus' teachings.(Mark 10:11-12) Christians will have little time to think about their own selfish desires for marriage and children if they followed the biblical commandment,"TAKE UP YOUR CROSS DAILY AND FOLLOW CHRIST".

*cough*

Exactly where did Paul command us not to get married? He said that it is better to stay single if a person can handle the temptations of celibacy, but he in no way said that it's wrong to marry, now or in any time.

On the contrary, 1 Timothy 4:1-5: "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer."
 
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fishstix

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I don't think that delaying marriage is such a terrible thing. I know of many people whose first and only marriage happened in their 30's or 40's. And they are quite happy together and most have even produced some children. I'd say it's a better idea to stay single longer and become more mature before making a big decision like getting married. That goes for both men and women. Sure, some people get married young and it works out great for them. But I'd say it's more likely to work out if the couple is a bit more mature. It's also possible that as they mature single people may indeed discover that they are meant to remain single. And there's nothing wrong with that either.

I don't believe that people should get married in order to mature and reach full adulthood. I think that people should mature and reach full adulthood first and then think about getting married. If that happens by the time a person is 18 or 20 or 25, great. And if it takes longer, so be it. It's better to delay marriage than to get married before one is grown up.

Evangelical Pastor said:
The article quoted is truly outrageous.It totally ignores:A.The Apostle Paul's instructions to Christian's not to get married.B.The end times we are now in which will result in unspeakable disasters stiking the world in the immediate future resulting in the total destruction of civilization that Jesus spoke of.C.Complete ignorance of divorce statistics;a higher percentage of Christians secure divorces than do non-Christians plunging them into grief and dispair.During their marriages,they become so dependant upon their mates,that many go on to re-marry,thus engaging in adultery according to Jesus' teachings.(Mark 10:11-12) Christians will have little time to think about their own selfish desires for marriage and children if they followed the biblical commandment,"TAKE UP YOUR CROSS DAILY AND FOLLOW CHRIST".

Paul did not instruct Christians to not get married. He said that marriage is good and singleness is also good. And that Christians should choose the one that they feel is right for them. Those who can handle being single and celibate should stay single. Those who feel the need to get married should get married. In Paul's opinion, he thinks that those who choose singleness like him get the better deal. But he does not say that Christians should not get married at all.
 
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KeilCoppes

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You know, it is also a difficult world in which a christian man who is looking for a committed Christian woman to live with him in peace is unable to find that woman.... and living in celibacy at the same time as the world assaults him with images that he resists. Is it then sin when the conditions are not available?

Just a thought, and an ongoing ache. Happiness is in the soul, but we're not in heaven yet.
 
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mina

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I agree with some points in this article but mostly it left me wondering why this person is so obsessed with other people's lives. Singles are sinning b/c they are single and delaying marriage????? I don't think any one person can say that about anyone else, especially since they don't know the details and heartaches of every single single person alive. The writer of the article should spend their time and energy worrying about their own life and not the lives of countless others. Many single people are very mature Christians that would put some marrieds' spiritual life to shame. Trust God to lead everyone who loves him into His glory and goodness for their own lives.
 
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TriptychR

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Playing Devils' Advocate a little, I can see where one can come from that angle. Is maturing independently going to help that much when confronted with another independent person later in life? If you're going to have two plants grow together, do you wait until they're full grown then try to twist them together? No, you start them as they're still growing. Then when they reach a certain maturity (physical or spiritual) they act as one instead of separately.
 
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Princess Pea

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If anyone wants the full background on this article ...

It was originally posted 8/25/04 at Crosswalk . Com - I don't think I can post a link, but go to that site, then the Community tab, then Singles, and you'll see recently featured articles. In a few more days it will be moved to the archives, which you can get to from any recently posted article.

The background, as far as I can tell: The author of this article is Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, KY. Evidently he gave a speech at the 2004 New Attitude conference which was then broadcast nationwide on the radio show Family Life Today. Camerin Courtney wrote a response to this speech/broadcast at the Christianity Today site, which generated a lot of publicity for Mohler's speech and evidently a flood of letters to him. The article in the OP is Mohler's rebuttal to Courtney's article.

There's quite a lively discussion of this whole sequence of speeches/articles going on at the Crosswalk forums, as well as a link to the Camerin Courtney article, which is outstandingly good.
 
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Quiet Storm

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Evangelical Pastor said:
The article quoted is truly outrageous.It totally ignores:A.The Apostle Paul's instructions to Christian's not to get married.B.The end times we are now in which will result in unspeakable disasters stiking the world in the immediate future resulting in the total destruction of civilization that Jesus spoke of.C.Complete ignorance of divorce statistics;a higher percentage of Christians secure divorces than do non-Christians plunging them into grief and dispair.During their marriages,they become so dependant upon their mates,that many go on to re-marry,thus engaging in adultery according to Jesus' teachings.(Mark 10:11-12) Christians will have little time to think about their own selfish desires for marriage and children if they followed the biblical commandment,"TAKE UP YOUR CROSS DAILY AND FOLLOW CHRIST".

While I haven't (and won't) read the entire article for my own reasons, I'd highly advise that earnest-seeking Christian singles who desire to marry and please God (such as myself) not take heed to this post. I know from personal experience that it has bondage written all over it.
 
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Injured Soldier

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The article tries to speak of biblical values, but the idea of a "gift of celibacy" isn't biblical. If there was a "gift of celibacy" that God gives you to make you be able to endure the pressure of singleness, there would equally be a "gift of marriage" that God gives you if he wants you married to make living married life easier. And go ask some of the people in the marriage ministry forum, marriage is not easy even for the best of them. Jesus said some remain celibate for the sake of the kingdom of God, not that some have been given the gift so they can remain celibate for the sake of the kingdom of God. And the "gift" Paul writes of in 1st Cor 7 is the gift of self control, which is needed by singles and marrieds alike. Really the writer is identifying with Platonic thought rather than any Biblical thinking.

A summary of Paul's message on marriage and singleness: If you want to get married, get married. If you want to stay single, stay single. Either way serve God and display self control. It is your business and no one else's but God's. There isn't a particular gift that singles and marrieds possess that makes their position in life any easier to live than anyone else.

Fact is, whether you are Christian or non Christian, the divorce statistics are higher for those who got married before 28 than those who got married after 28. Getting married in 30s and 40s is not selfish, it is smart and taking the institution of marriage seriously.
 
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the_man

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Princess Pea said:
If anyone wants the full background on this article ...

It was originally posted 8/25/04 at Crosswalk . Com - I don't think I can post a link, but go to that site, then the Community tab, then Singles, and you'll see recently featured articles. In a few more days it will be moved to the archives, which you can get to from any recently posted article.

The background, as far as I can tell: The author of this article is Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, KY. Evidently he gave a speech at the 2004 New Attitude conference which was then broadcast nationwide on the radio show Family Life Today. Camerin Courtney wrote a response to this speech/broadcast at the Christianity Today site, which generated a lot of publicity for Mohler's speech and evidently a flood of letters to him. The article in the OP is Mohler's rebuttal to Courtney's article.

There's quite a lively discussion of this whole sequence of speeches/articles going on at the Crosswalk forums, as well as a link to the Camerin Courtney article, which is outstandingly good.
Thanks for beating me to the punch on giving some background to this article. It cannot be taken on it's own.

The one and a half hour speech can be found here:
http://www.albertmohler.com/sermons.html

He talkes specifically about singles in the last 15-ish minutes...so there is a context for this...but I fear opinions have already been made.
 
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Grunt

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The Article said:
On the part of men, it may also take the
shape of a refusal to grow up and take the lead in courtship. There are
countless Christian women who are prayerfully waiting for Christian men
to grow up and take the lead. What are these guys waiting for?

Heh, that just gives me the mental image of a girl just sitting in her room doing nothing but praying for prince charming (or something to that effect) to swoop through the window and ask for her hand.

Besides that, it sends the wrong message IMO. Relationships are a two-way street from the very beginning; yes, I expect that in most cases the guy will have to initiate that actual "asking out," but there is a lot more to it than just the girl "prayerfully waiting" and the guy "taking the lead."

The Article said:
The delay of marriage has caused any number of ills in the larger
society, and in the church. Honesty compels us to admit that this is
indeed tied to levels of sexual promiscuity and frustration[...]

Honesty will also compel us to admit that the larger society is by far not Christian, and that is the likely root of their problems.

This really irks me- I think that the Bible literalists have long been taking Paul's words out of context. Frankly, if you're only getting married because you can't keep it in your pants, I think you're the one who's more of a "threat to marriage."

Evangelical Pastor said:
A.The Apostle Paul's instructions to Christian's not to get married.B.The end times we are now in which will result in unspeakable disasters stiking the world in the immediate future resulting in the total destruction of civilization that Jesus spoke of.C.Complete ignorance of divorce statistics;a higher percentage of Christians secure divorces than do non-Christians plunging them into grief and dispair.

A. Funny, that's not in any Bible I've read. Source?
B. I seem to recall that Christ Himself said "only the Father knows the hour of my return." Somehow, I doubt that you are the Father. Disregarding that arrogance, I see no reason to believe that we're anywhere close to Christ's return. If anything, the world is thousands of times better off, especially for Christians.
C. Even if that statistic (source?) is true for people who say they're Christian, it's really irrelevant. None of us have the right, nor is it our place, to say who is or is not saved. There's no way to know just what the real statistics are.

Evangelical Pastor said:
Christians will have little time to think about their own selfish desires for marriage and children[...]

I believe God was the one who said, "It is not good that man should be alone" and, "be fruitful and multiply."
 
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the_man

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Injured Soldier said:
The article tries to speak of biblical values, but the idea of a "gift of celibacy" isn't biblical. If there was a "gift of celibacy" that God gives you to make you be able to endure the pressure of singleness, there would equally be a "gift of marriage" that God gives you if he wants you married to make living married life easier. And go ask some of the people in the marriage ministry forum, marriage is not easy even for the best of them. Jesus said some remain celibate for the sake of the kingdom of God, not that some have been given the gift so they can remain celibate for the sake of the kingdom of God. And the "gift" Paul writes of in 1st Cor 7 is the gift of self control, which is needed by singles and marrieds alike. Really the writer is identifying with Platonic thought rather than any Biblical thinking.

A summary of Paul's message on marriage and singleness: If you want to get married, get married. If you want to stay single, stay single. Either way serve God and display self control. It is your business and no one else's but God's. There isn't a particular gift that singles and marrieds possess that makes their position in life any easier to live than anyone else.

Fact is, whether you are Christian or non Christian, the divorce statistics are higher for those who got married before 28 than those who got married after 28. Getting married in 30s and 40s is not selfish, it is smart and taking the institution of marriage seriously.
Mohlers stance for the "gift of celibacy" is in Pauls words 'better to marry than burn with passion'. A lot of us 'burn with passion' and choose to fulfill them outside the context of marriage, this is what Paul (and Mohler) are trying to say. If you can get married, do so...if you can, you burn, but choose to quench the burn elsewhere by choosing not to marry, then the "title" on the article stands. (note, we are talking about sexuality here).

And because one has a gift doesn't mean their life will be easier...we have the free gift of salvation...now who upon recieving this gift has had their life easier? In most cases it is the opposite, your life becomes complicated...the devil cannot leave you alone..you know too much. However, in everything (whether it is your salvation, your desire to get married, your need for a job, illness) we lean on God and not on ourselves...He is our gift.

Regarding the age issue, he adresses this in his speech which I will allow you to listen if you havne't already. But the divorce rate among younger marrieds vs older marrieds I do not agree is a matter of maturity. If you said, divorce rate between 14 year olds (if they were allowed to married, they aren't, which makes sense) is higher than 25 year olds, I'd say, but ofcourse, a 14 year old (in today's society mind you) cannot provide for themselves and is throughly dependant on a guardian. Apart from selfishness or a haste decision to marry, a 24 year old couple (both 24-ish) should not have more of a problem staying commited to each other than a 40 year old couple (40-ish). It's more of a problem with society than a age issue.

PS: I dont' agree with all of what he (Mohler) has said (and i'm not picking on Injured, just iron sharpening iron, I would love if he would do the same with me, engaged in healthy dialog, it's a good thing), but as one who has actually listened to the sermon, read Ms. Courtney's critique and then read his response, there is a lot more context to the issue I feel than most people realize. I urge more of you to try to listen to the whole thing if you care to comment on the issue. It's good tho, it's brought up some really good discussions among singles and married alike.
 
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Tuffguy

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I think this is more about some guys personal 'itch' then it really is a commentary reguarding an important issue.
Do men become more mature not living on their own, but going directly from college to married life? Does that work? I'm sure it can, but it sure wasn't the right path for me.
I think this is all well and good when you had communities that never went anywhere, never got educated, just where born, lived and died on the local family farm. Heck, getting married at 16 isn't such a bad thing in that situation.
 
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