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Mahatma Gandhi on Socialism.
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<blockquote data-quote="BondiHarry" data-source="post: 57870991" data-attributes="member: 281154"><p>Then why are almost 50% of American workers paying no income tax? </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>A sensible way to obtain revenue for what? The God given responsibilities of government or to fund the things you want added to government duties to be paid for by someone else? </p><p> </p><p>Thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not steal. Love thy neighbor as thyself. I recommend those who think they can add to the duties that God gave government while ignoring His commands to us on how we treat our neighbor read Matthew 7. As Jesus has said "why call ye me Lord, Lord and DO NOT the things which I say"? </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Do you understand that wealth is not a static quantity? That productive work creates NEW wealth yet it is productive work you statists want taxed. Do you not understand that you have no right to the bread of another man's labor? </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Shared sacrifice? What percentage of those who work pay NO INCOME TAX AT ALL? <a href="http://www.allegromedia.com/sugi/taxes/" target="_blank">U.S. Income Tax Burden</a> </p><p> </p><p>One of God's eternal lessons is for us to live within our means which government is not doing (not to mention a great many individuals). It is spending far more than it is taking in and accumulating a massive overall debt and this will only lead to economic catastrophe if it continues yet any call to reign in spending and we hear 'oh, they're cutting programs for the poor, they're cutting education (which is funny since God tasked parents with the responsiblitiy of ensuring their children are educated, NOT government and the more government has involved itself with education the worse our educational system becomes), they're cutting grandma's Social Security, they're cutting funding for our crumbling infrastructure' etc.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>When you're looking at your neighbor's property thinking it should be yours instead you are coveting. When you take that property whether directly or by government proxy, you are stealing. The system we should be developing is the one in conformance with what God tells us we should do, not this system that fundamentally ignores God's instructions on productive work, living within our means, saving for the future, not being a burden on others, charity (I still haven't come across that scripture which says 'go, take what beongs to your neighbor, sell it and give the money to the poor') and instead implements man's wisdom on how to do things. Have you noticed man's history of war, poverty and oppression that has resulted from man doing this?</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>The sharing was voluntary. In those instances where men have practiced socialism in a matter of months, years or decades it will invariably happen that those who work hard see that their hard work gains them little and they stop working so hard and for those who don't like to work hard they have little incentive to change since they can get what they want without expending the effort themselves to produce it and you get a downward spiral that ends in economic ruin.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>This is just a denial of reality. When you cut marginal tax rates and capital gains taxes you get more ecnomic activity which creates jobs which creates more tax payers and generates more revenue. This happened under Kennedy, Reagan and Bush but the problem is the Federal government always spends the additional revenue and then some.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>If we had a smarter national energy policy the first Gulf War could have been avoided (which would have avoided the 2nd Gulf War except it is stupid to let imperialistic, murderous thugs acquire nuclear weapons which Saddam would have had by now if the first Gulf War had not been fought). The Afghanistan war was somethng we had to do to respond to Al Queda and their Taliban sponsors.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>I can imagine ways to significantly cut defense spending while retaining the ability to effectively defend ourselves and our vital national interests but I'd be curious what you think ought to be cut.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Yes it does ... as well as the trillions in unfunded mandates for social programs.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Quite true.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>You're a tad off in your analysis on the viability of Medicare <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7053462/ns/politics/t/medicares-deficit-times-social-securitys/" target="_blank">Medicare's deficit 7 times Social Security's - politics - msnbc.com</a> </p><p> </p><p>Ending the Bush tax cuts would only exacerbate the Federal revenue problem and increase the deficits. The thing we need to do is make the Bush tax cuts permanent and take away the fear that business men have over being hit with tax increase which has led them to not invest in their businesses as they would like.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>The only thing is you have no moral say over how your neighbor uses his money. If you and like minded people want to band together and start your single payer program using your own resources have at it just dont think you have a right to FORCE others to join in.</p><p> </p><p>That is the thing I cannot understand about Christian statists, you create a government that God never authorized, that punishes the productive and rewards the slothful, that entails breaking several of God's commands to us (do not covet, do not steal, love thy neighbor) and this socialist model you adore is bankrupting nation after nation.</p><p> </p><p>If government was reduced to the responsiblities that God gave it, it would need significantly less funding and the people would retain far more of the bread of their own labor which would be a good thing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BondiHarry, post: 57870991, member: 281154"] Then why are almost 50% of American workers paying no income tax? A sensible way to obtain revenue for what? The God given responsibilities of government or to fund the things you want added to government duties to be paid for by someone else? Thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not steal. Love thy neighbor as thyself. I recommend those who think they can add to the duties that God gave government while ignoring His commands to us on how we treat our neighbor read Matthew 7. As Jesus has said "why call ye me Lord, Lord and DO NOT the things which I say"? Do you understand that wealth is not a static quantity? That productive work creates NEW wealth yet it is productive work you statists want taxed. Do you not understand that you have no right to the bread of another man's labor? Shared sacrifice? What percentage of those who work pay NO INCOME TAX AT ALL? [URL="http://www.allegromedia.com/sugi/taxes/"]U.S. Income Tax Burden[/URL] One of God's eternal lessons is for us to live within our means which government is not doing (not to mention a great many individuals). It is spending far more than it is taking in and accumulating a massive overall debt and this will only lead to economic catastrophe if it continues yet any call to reign in spending and we hear 'oh, they're cutting programs for the poor, they're cutting education (which is funny since God tasked parents with the responsiblitiy of ensuring their children are educated, NOT government and the more government has involved itself with education the worse our educational system becomes), they're cutting grandma's Social Security, they're cutting funding for our crumbling infrastructure' etc. When you're looking at your neighbor's property thinking it should be yours instead you are coveting. When you take that property whether directly or by government proxy, you are stealing. The system we should be developing is the one in conformance with what God tells us we should do, not this system that fundamentally ignores God's instructions on productive work, living within our means, saving for the future, not being a burden on others, charity (I still haven't come across that scripture which says 'go, take what beongs to your neighbor, sell it and give the money to the poor') and instead implements man's wisdom on how to do things. Have you noticed man's history of war, poverty and oppression that has resulted from man doing this? The sharing was voluntary. In those instances where men have practiced socialism in a matter of months, years or decades it will invariably happen that those who work hard see that their hard work gains them little and they stop working so hard and for those who don't like to work hard they have little incentive to change since they can get what they want without expending the effort themselves to produce it and you get a downward spiral that ends in economic ruin. This is just a denial of reality. When you cut marginal tax rates and capital gains taxes you get more ecnomic activity which creates jobs which creates more tax payers and generates more revenue. This happened under Kennedy, Reagan and Bush but the problem is the Federal government always spends the additional revenue and then some. If we had a smarter national energy policy the first Gulf War could have been avoided (which would have avoided the 2nd Gulf War except it is stupid to let imperialistic, murderous thugs acquire nuclear weapons which Saddam would have had by now if the first Gulf War had not been fought). The Afghanistan war was somethng we had to do to respond to Al Queda and their Taliban sponsors. I can imagine ways to significantly cut defense spending while retaining the ability to effectively defend ourselves and our vital national interests but I'd be curious what you think ought to be cut. Yes it does ... as well as the trillions in unfunded mandates for social programs. Quite true. You're a tad off in your analysis on the viability of Medicare [URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7053462/ns/politics/t/medicares-deficit-times-social-securitys/"]Medicare's deficit 7 times Social Security's - politics - msnbc.com[/URL] Ending the Bush tax cuts would only exacerbate the Federal revenue problem and increase the deficits. The thing we need to do is make the Bush tax cuts permanent and take away the fear that business men have over being hit with tax increase which has led them to not invest in their businesses as they would like. The only thing is you have no moral say over how your neighbor uses his money. If you and like minded people want to band together and start your single payer program using your own resources have at it just dont think you have a right to FORCE others to join in. That is the thing I cannot understand about Christian statists, you create a government that God never authorized, that punishes the productive and rewards the slothful, that entails breaking several of God's commands to us (do not covet, do not steal, love thy neighbor) and this socialist model you adore is bankrupting nation after nation. If government was reduced to the responsiblities that God gave it, it would need significantly less funding and the people would retain far more of the bread of their own labor which would be a good thing. [/QUOTE]
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