Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
"A rolling stone gathers no moss".
It doesn't make for a good discussion either - it's looks more like a blog.
You can say that again"A rolling stone gathers no moss".
1. We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iv.ii.html
The plan of salvation ... by the will of God handed ... to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.
Some want other grounds and other pillars.
Irenaeus didn't say that the Scriptures are the pillar and ground of our faith. He said that those from whom they learned the plan of salvation proclaimed the Gospel to be the pillar and ground of truth. Part of that proclamation was through Scripture, by the will of God.
His point was that the Gospel is the pillar and ground of truth. He is not making commentary on Scripture.
Next paragraph
2. To which course many nations of those barbarians who believe in Christ do assent, having salvation written in their hearts by the Spirit, without paper or ink, and, carefully preserving the ancient tradition,33203320 [The uneducated barbarians must receive the Gospel on testimony. Irenæus puts apostolic traditions, genuine and uncorrupt, in this relation to the primary authority of the written word. 2 Thess. ii. 15, 2 Thess. iii. 6.] believing in one God, the Creator of heaven and earth, and all things therein, by means of Christ Jesus, the Son of God; who, because of His surpassing love towards His creation, condescended to be born of the virgin, He Himself uniting man through Himself to God, and having suffered under Pontius Pilate, and rising again, and having been received up in splendour, shall come in glory, the Saviour of those who are saved, and the Judge of those who are judged, and sending into eternal fire those who transform the truth, and despise His Father and His advent. Those who, in the absence of written documents,33213321 Literally, without letters; equivalent to, without paper and ink, a few lines previously. have believed this faith, are barbarians, so far as regards our language; but as regards doctrine, manner, and tenor of life, they are, because of faith, very wise indeed; and they do please God, ordering their conversation in all righteousness, chastity, and wisdom.
There is nothing there about the notion of supporting any tradition not directly tied to scripture. Besides we have the written record, aka, bible. Now we just need to follow the suggestions---scripture is the pillar and ground of our faith. Divine scripture for salvation. And discard non apostolic (scriptural) tradition. Just as they suggested.
You never addressed my point that St Irenaeus did not say that the Scriptures were a pillar and ground of truth. Rather, he said that the Gospel is the pillar and ground of truth, and that the Scriptures were part of the proclamation of the Gospel
You can say that again
NKJV) Matthew 8:20 And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air [have] nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay [His] head."
The Temptations - Papa was a Rolling Stone ORIGINAL FULL VERSION - YouTube
Actually, he says nothing about Scripture in this passage. The point being made is that these "barbarians" believed in spite of speaking a language and being part of a culture that had no written legacy to speak of.
I've quoted Irenaeus numerous times now. He says the scriptures to be the ground and pillar of our faith. Not a ground. See the bolded part.
Next sentence:
"For it is unlawful to assert that they preached before they possessed perfect knowledge, as some do even venture to say, boasting themselves as improvers of the apostles."
See the context? People try to improve on the apostolic writing (scripture). But no, scripture is the ground/pillar of our faith.
But that is not to say we don't have the written scripture.
You've quoted St Irenaeus, but he doesn't say what you think he says. I've pointed that out, but you don't address my points, but re-quote St Irenaeus and say that he backs your point of view.
St Irenaeus doesn't support your point of view. Re-quoting him won't help. Please address the counter-points made to your arguments.
1. We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iv.ii.html
See the bolded part? Now show us where he says the gospel is the ground and pillar of our faith.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?