Maggots that die not

[StarryEyedShoeGazer]

I was dealing with the garbage the other day and due to the hot weather here in Australia it seems to attract more vermin than usual.
The one of the sweltering bags had some maggots wriggling on it.
I was all at once disgusted and horrified as I am a city kid and the reality of what goes on in nature is sometimes too graphic for my weak stomach.

But it led me to think of Jesus' words about hell and about "where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched." It made me wonder if the worms we see on earth (in all their horror and grossness) are but types and shadows of the eternal worms of Hades?

Keen to hear people's thoughts.

 

[R. Hartono]

"where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched." It made me wonder if the worms we see on earth (in all their horror and grossness) are but types and shadows of the eternal worms of Hades?

I guess you have explained it clearly.
There's a testimony by Mary K Bexter who has seen the hell, that those worms bites people's skeleton in the burning fire.

 

[Grace2022]

I was dealing with the garbage the other day and due to the hot weather here in Australia it seems to attract more vermin than usual.
The one of the sweltering bags had some maggots wriggling on it.
I was all at once disgusted and horrified as I am a city kid and the reality of what goes on in nature is sometimes too graphic for my weak stomach.

But it led me to think of Jesus' words about hell and about "where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched." It made me wonder if the worms we see on earth (in all their horror and grossness) are but types and shadows of the eternal worms of Hades?

Keen to hear people's thoughts.

Hi
Which book and reference please? I'd like to look it up.

 

[JackRT]

Much imagery in the Bible is metaphorical or poetic in nature.

 

[Not me]

I was dealing with the garbage the other day and due to the hot weather here in Australia it seems to attract more vermin than usual.
The one of the sweltering bags had some maggots wriggling on it.
I was all at once disgusted and horrified as I am a city kid and the reality of what goes on in nature is sometimes too graphic for my weak stomach.

But it led me to think of Jesus' words about hell and about "where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched." It made me wonder if the worms we see on earth (in all their horror and grossness) are but types and shadows of the eternal worms of Hades?

Keen to hear people's thoughts.

I have wondered if the expression “the worm that does not” is speaking of the “worm of life” that “certain something” that can never die in a individual, that thing that lives forever. Just a pondering of mine.

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[Ancient of Days]

Much imagery in the Bible is metaphorical or poetic in nature.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[Steve Petersen]

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Whose version of truth? Yours? Are you claiming inerrant understanding of the Biblical texts?

 

[Ancient of Days]

Whose version of truth? Yours?

No, Gods.

 

[Steve Petersen]

No, Gods.

I'll ask again: Are you claiming inerrant understanding of the Biblical texts?

 

[Ancient of Days]

I'll ask again: Are you claiming inerrant understanding of the Biblical texts?

It says what it says. It was written to be understood. When there is a passage I don't understand I ask for wisdom and understanding from the one who wrote it. The vast majority of scripture is literal unless the context clearly states that it is symbolic. Capiche?

 

[Steve Petersen]

It says what it says. It was written to be understood. When there is a passage I don't understand I ask for wisdom and understanding from the one who wrote it. The vast majority of scripture is literal unless the context clearly states that it is symbolic. Capiche?

I capiche alright. I grew up on this nonsense. I am completely familiar with all the apologetic tap-dancing involved in defending a literalist approach to the text.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I have wondered if the expression “the worm that does not” is speaking of the “worm of life” that “certain something” that can never die in a individual, that thing that lives forever. Just a pondering of mine.

Much love in Christ, Not me

It's the spirit man that does not die.
Ecc. 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[Dave-W]

I have wondered if the expression “the worm that does not” is speaking of the “worm of life” that “certain something” that can never die in a individual, that thing that lives forever.

That has always been my take on it.

 

[tall73]

I have wondered if the expression “the worm that does not” is speaking of the “worm of life” that “certain something” that can never die in a individual, that thing that lives forever. Just a pondering of mine.

Much love in Christ, Not me

Mark 9:42 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— 44 where

‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’d]">[d]


45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— 46 where

‘Their worm does not die,
And the fire is not quenched.’e]">[e]


47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— 48 where

‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’f]">[f]

He is referencing an Old Testament passage:

Isaiah 66:24
“And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

In Isaiah this is envisioning them going out and looking at the slain enemies of God who are left without burial. Hence they are referred to as corpses. This would have been a shameful thing to be exposed in this way after death (see I Samuel 31 for instance). They are being eaten by worms and burned by fire.

The word that Jesus uses for hell here is "Gehenna."It is a reference to the Hebrew for the valley of Hinnom, where Baal worship used to involve parents sacrificing their children in the fire.

Josiah destroyed the idolatrous area:
2 kings 23:10 And he defiled Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Sone]">[e] of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter pass through the fire to Molech.

Some think that after that trash and bodies of criminals were deposited there, and burned regularly, but I am not sure of where that information comes from.

Later it did become a place for casting bodies after the siege of Jerusalem.

Jeremiah pictures bodies being heaped there, some buried, but some having no place left to bury.

Jer 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart. 32 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.

The connotations are of disgust, wickedness, judgment and dead bodies, and it came to be a symbol of final punishment and shame.

Jesus draws on this imagery of bodies of the enemies of God which are burned with fire and eaten by worms to show the fate of those who go to hell.

 

[JackRT]

It says what it says. It was written to be understood. When there is a passage I don't understand I ask for wisdom and understanding from the one who wrote it. The vast majority of scripture is literal unless the context clearly states that it is symbolic. Capiche?

I also find it very helpful to learn the larger context of scripture --- the history, the culture, the customs, the cosmology and the literary traditions in use.

 

[JackRT]

Mark 9:48 where "Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched."

He is referencing an Old Testament passage:

Isaiah 66:24 “And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

In the passage above Mark is employing the Hebrew/Jewish literary tradition of haggadic midrash by which the past is linked to the present in such a way as to establish a continuum of God's relationship with his people. This means that Jesus might not have actually spoken these exact words but Mark was using them to establish continuity and to lend authority to his gospel.

 

[Not me]

It's the spirit man that does not die.
Ecc. 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The soul also does not die, for I do believe “we” are our souls?

That has always been my take on it.

Glad someone else has that take. Not saying it’s true, but a possibility??

Mark 9:42 “

‘Their worm does not die


‘Their worm does not die,


‘Their worm does not die


Isaiah 66:24

For their worm does not die,

They do use the term “their worm” on multiple occasions. So it seems they are calling something “theirs” whether that’s inside or outside of them I don’t know. But it’s a interesting thought.

Much love to all, Not me

 

[StarryEyedShoeGazer]

Hi
Which book and reference please? I'd like to look it up.

Mark 9:44